The 'A' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

Bejasus

Bejasus

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The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

Do I go for one of these from Suncor
4486098.jpg


or one of these from Kong
a644.jpg


or one of Hylas's double jaw toggle setups, and how strong should it be?

cue GMac or one of the other ever helpful anchor dudes.

Chain is galvanised 8mm G4. Boat is 45 ft 17 tons.
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

Of course most of the reponses you get, rather than answering your question about the merits of various anchor/chain connection methods, will be from posters telling you that 8mm chain is insufficient for a 17T boat.

Not me though, I use a shackle.

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

Silkie, I couldn't agree more. I have 8mm on a 3T Centaur and feel comfortable. The same on a 17T would make me think about the narrowness of that safety margin just a little too much. So, to answer the question, either, but do get a bigger chain before you go for, well, either ...
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

All well with the world again then !. Am I right in thinking that the Suncor thing rotates but the Kong thing doesnt (keep it clean gents !). If so, the Kong thing has it.
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

The kong looks like it has a swivel. I've got a kong without a swivel, which was fitted in April. seems OK after 70 nights at anchor over the summer including 2 x 3 week stints, and 2 x 1 week stints, during which i definitely swung around a few times.

What it will be like after 10 years, I obviously cant say /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

both the Kong and the Suncor in the pictures rotate and the Suncor has an additional lateral movement. The Kong can be purchased with either a swivel or without according to their website.
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

Wasn't there an magazine article, in recent months, about the relative unreliability and weakness of a spectrum of anchor swivels on the market? Can someone point to it?

/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

It was in Yachting Monthly recently, and authored (I think) by Vyv Cox who had been commissioned by YM to carry out tests on this range of connectors.
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

Why do you need a connector? 2 shackles are stronger, cheaper, swivel quite happily, and I have never had any problems with them.

I use s/s shackles with a socket head, so there is nothing to stick out and foul the roller. Of course, it does depend on whether your roller is wide enough.....
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you need a connector? 2 shackles are stronger, cheaper, swivel quite happily, and I have never had any problems with them.

I use s/s shackles with a socket head, so there is nothing to stick out and foul the roller. Of course, it does depend on whether your roller is wide enough.....

[/ QUOTE ]A swivel is useful if you have a larger anchor and a windlass. The anchor doesn't always come up the right way round, and its easy to swivel it into position for stowage. Furthermore as you imply some bow-rollers or stem-head fittings aren't very good at allowing even shackles with socket heads through them when raising your anchor under windlass.

If my memory is correct, the magazine article that was referrred to in another post concluded that the kong connector was the only one worth using.

I remember feeling slightly smug as its the one we have.
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

[ QUOTE ]
Do I go for one of these from Suncor

or one of these from Kong

or one of Hylas's double jaw toggle setups, and how strong should it be?


[/ QUOTE ]The short answer is: if you don't know what you need, you probably don't need it.

Use a shackle, you can always install a swivel later if the need arises.
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

8mm chain - unless you're planning to hang the boat in the air from it the chain won't part. A heavier chain will give you a better catenary which will help you not to drag and will reduce the shock loads that can break an anchor free. Shackles / swivels are always the weakest point in ground tackle so size up where fairleads and through-holes allow.

If your swivel is at the anchor it can attract grit and debris which can grind the moving parts as they swivel.

Simon
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

[ QUOTE ]
8mm chain - unless you're planning to hang the boat in the air from it the chain won't part.

[/ QUOTE ]His boat would be too big for 8mm grade L chain and would be flirting with the SWL in rough conditions - but as I'm sure you noted above, it is not in fact 8mm.

[ QUOTE ]
A heavier chain will give you a better catenary which will help you not to drag and will reduce the shock loads that can break an anchor free.

[/ QUOTE ]No it won't.

[ QUOTE ]
Shackles / swivels are always the weakest point in ground tackle...

[/ QUOTE ]Not necessarily.

[ QUOTE ]
If your swivel is at the anchor it can attract grit and debris which can grind the moving parts as they swivel.

[/ QUOTE ]Swivels don't tend to swivel while at anchor (not much anyway).
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A heavier chain will give you a better catenary which will help you not to drag and will reduce the shock loads that can break an anchor free.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No it won't

[/ QUOTE ] Why not? Are you suggesting that the catenary of heavy chain absorbing shock loads that I have experienced for myself many times is in my imagination?
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

[ QUOTE ]
whichever one has fewer parts = less likely to fail ?

[/ QUOTE ]Unfortunately less parts but not good for purpose fails before two parts fit for purpose. It all depends on the quality and design of shackle (or swivel) that you use.
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A heavier chain will give you a better catenary which will help you not to drag and will reduce the shock loads that can break an anchor free.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No it won't

[/ QUOTE ] Why not? Are you suggesting that the catenary of heavy chain absorbing shock loads that I have experienced for myself many times is in my imagination?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is worth a read ... seems to make sense:

http://alain.fraysse.free.fr/sail/rode/static/static.htm

Richard
 
Re: The \'A\' word, need a connector but currently got a shackle, so....

The Suncor one is held together by a pair of 'sex-nuts', which is the correct term for the two concentric screws that form the chain fixing, whereas the Kong is held together by a screw that has no other function, load being taken by the forged lugs. This makes the Kong stronger when tested to destruction. The force required for each is great, equal or better than the strength of the chain, so there is not a great deal of difference between them.

However, my personal experience is that the sex nut tends to work itself loose much more readily than the Kong type.

This photo shows the result of destructive testing of the 'sex-nut' type

_P3P7779.jpg


This one shows the assembly details of the Kong one

_P3P7806.jpg


On the subject of the need for a swivel, most windlass manufacturers seem to recommend them. Chain twisting in the anchor locker is reduced by having one, and this year I witnessed a large chunk of gelcoat knocked from the bow of a charter boat when an anchor twisted violently on leaving the water.

If deciding not to use one, you should be aware that galvanised shackles did poorly in the destructive tests, having very variable results. Go for a good quality stainless one a size bigger than the chain.
 
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