Thames barge sailing by

[alant]

The main problem with the spritsail rig is that the sail is brailed upwards, meaning that in heavy weather all the weight and windage is aloft. This has restricted Thames barges to coastal work, for which they are very efficient as well as being beautiful, though I used to know someone who sailed the Marjorie into Honfleur yonks ago.

My only experience has been a couple of day-trips out of Maldon, followed by a slap-up meal on board. I'd love to have seen a barge working, or better still, a stackie.

The weight & windage aloft, is compensated by the lump in the water that the masts are attached too, so still very stable. Main problem in any 'heavy weather', is that they have no windward capability. But they were not designed as such.

Even under engine, Kitty was difficult to manouver when F4-5 +.

Prop was offset to starboard, which made getting back into her berth at Ocean Village entrance, extremely interesting.

Berth was starboard side too, so had to attack quite fast when tide was pushing across the berth, due to leeway. Directly ahead on same pontoon, was a plastic motorcruiser & to port was the bowsprit of Leopard (£10 million squids). If put into astern & given some revs to stop crunching the motorcruiser, the whole stern would move rapidly toward Leopard.

Only effective method, was to get close to pontoon, drop crewman off & hope he could get bowspring onto cleat, turning wheel rapidly to turn bows to port whilst driving forward, ensuring stern swung into pontoon.

Down below, on Kitty & Alice, the 'saloons where very impressive in terms of space & head clearance (well for me anyway).

 

[Greenheart]

Thank you, Bajansailor, that looks like fascinating reading.

I love the barge-evolution plans you've put in. Can you imagine one of those, pulling in at Shamrock Quay or Poole, or Brighton Marina! No danger of that being confused with the plastic French sloop from the berth next door.

I've no doubt of these designs' limitations as sailing machines, nor any misty hopes about their ease of handling at the dockside. As I'm still almost wholly at the pencil, paper-and-eraser stage, I'll try to include handiness, weatherliness and traditional appeal on the same sheet of A5; I don't doubt it can be done, though only by a lot of thought and testing.

When I have the cash to turn into custom-made sails, I'll be sure it's spent on individuality!

 

[johnalison]

e.g Arundel Castle - sailed to Christian from Antwerp; Eastern Belle - out to Lisbon and back..

According to my information, Arundel Castle was a boomie, which would have made her more seaworthy, as in:
http://www.thamesbarge.org.uk/barges/biblio/big_barges.html

 

[Dave_Seager]

As has already been suggested, it was probably "Alice" that you saw. She is based at Gunwharf Quay, just below the Spinnaker Tower and is available for charter. Our club took her out for a day last year, sailing across to Cowes for lunch and then back in the afternoon. I would recommend the trip. They sail with a small professional crew but encourage the guests to get involved in as much of the sailing as they want.

 

[prv]

I wonder whether, in an age when 'spectacular' is something easily sold to the very well-off, classic rigs with their beautiful complexity mightn't come back into vogue? Not expecting the owners themselves to deal with ropes and bits of chain and oars and actual tasks, but the necessary crew would surely confer even more status on the billionaire owner?

I think they are, slowly. Unfortunately I didn't get to see the big classics racing in the Solent last year - anyone got pictures? I think that's the sort of thing Dan's on about.

Pete

 

[prv]

How much more fun, and more imaginative and interesting, sailing would be if yacht designers, and we that make up the market for their output, ventured towards rigs and deckplans that weren't generally all alike.

Some do. Crabbers like mine are the obvious example, but there are various other similar and not-so-similar types being production built. Then you have all the one-off designers who'll create you something unique - see eg Tom Macnaughton's back catalogue.

Pete

 

[Greenheart]

Thanks Pete. MacNaughton clearly hasn't been distracted by popular twenty-first century design cues, or even by anything from the last sixty years! I like his boats' workmanlike style and the genuine useability of rigs that split a large total sail area into sections that don't become monsters in a squall.

I actually go for schooners most of all, and those with bowsprits and overhangs always seem to me to be better proportioned than those without. Apparently they're inferior in seaworthiness/weatherliness terms, but I'm smitten and I don't care!

The whole peak/throat halyard complexity, and running backstays, not to mention topsails, undermines my roller-reefing bermudian sloop experience, but the gaff rig's appearance in use easily covers any cracks in my confidence.

I just have to find a hull new enough to withstand my modifications, and pretty enough to match the aesthetic improvements above the deck. What was the 55 footer of which the Navy had half a dozen? GRP, and proven many times round the globe. Quite a counter, if I recall, and set up as a yawl, using the stern overhang. I'll remember when I'm sober...

Sorry, this was a bit of a derailment from barges. Same sentiment though.

 

[prv]

The whole peak/throat halyard complexity, and running backstays, not to mention topsails, undermines my roller-reefing bermudian sloop experience

Ever tried it? It's really not as hard as you seem to believe.

Hauling two halyards at once is obviously easy if you have two people; take one each and away you go. On your own is slightly harder, but not much. If you lead both halyards next to each other you can haul them like one line; mine are on opposite sides of the cockpit so that doesn't work, but modern one-way jammers mean I don't need to maintain a constant pull on both so I manage OK. You'll have tackles on everything so don't actually need to pull all that hard, and although KS has winches fitted I've never needed to use them.

Running backstays - put dinghy-mainsheet style jammer blocks on them and it's a quick tweak to release or tighten them when beating. Make it part of the headsail-sheet tacking and you'll find you have time to fit it into the drill. Or go for a Bristol Pilot Cutter rig, which just sets the shrouds slightly further aft and doesn't bother with runners at all.

Gaff topsails (as opposed to square topsails) I can't speak with much authority on, as KS has none. But the one time I've helped set one, it seemed to go smoothly enough. Possibly due to the fact that the person I was helping was a certain Mr Cunliffe, mind you . But if you're practically-minded enough to be able to re-rig a yacht with an entirely different sailplan, making a topsail work ought to be trivial. (And if you're not, the situation will never arise ).

Pete

 

[alant]

Thanks Pete. MacNaughton clearly hasn't been distracted by popular twenty-first century design cues, or even by anything from the last sixty years! I like his boats' workmanlike style and the genuine useability of rigs that split a large total sail area into sections that don't become monsters in a squall.

I actually go for schooners most of all, and those with bowsprits and overhangs always seem to me to be better proportioned than those without. Apparently they're inferior in seaworthiness/weatherliness terms, but I'm smitten and I don't care!

The whole peak/throat halyard complexity, and running backstays, not to mention topsails, undermines my roller-reefing bermudian sloop experience, but the gaff rig's appearance in use easily covers any cracks in my confidence.

I just have to find a hull new enough to withstand my modifications, and pretty enough to match the aesthetic improvements above the deck. What was the 55 footer of which the Navy had half a dozen? GRP, and proven many times round the globe. Quite a counter, if I recall, and set up as a yawl, using the stern overhang. I'll remember when I'm sober...

Sorry, this was a bit of a derailment from barges. Same sentiment though.

Nic 55's

 

[Madhatter]

Yur be one fur sale

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THAMES-SAILING-BARGE-/120718243693?pt=UK_Sporting_Goods_Sailing_Boats_ET&hash=item1c1b5e376d

 

[Mark-1]

Nic 55's

Had a nice blast on one of these a couple of years back:

http://fattie.freehostia.com/p/index.html

 

[Poignard]

According to my information, Arundel Castle was a boomie, which would have made her more seaworthy, as in:
http://www.thamesbarge.org.uk/barges/biblio/big_barges.html

You are right.

I haven't got Carr's book handy but I think he also mentions 'British Lion' trading to Guernsey with cargoes of stone

 

[Fantasie 19]

As has already been suggested, it was probably "Alice" that you saw. She is based at Gunwharf Quay, just below the Spinnaker Tower and is available for charter. Our club took her out for a day last year, sailing across to Cowes for lunch and then back in the afternoon. I would recommend the trip. They sail with a small professional crew but encourage the guests to get involved in as much of the sailing as they want.

We did the same - fantastic day out...

 

[Greenheart]

Interesting links. Here's another.

http://hamble.boatshed.com/canns_of_harwich_thames_barge-boat-54042.html


It's looking like these old barges are everywhere!