Testing output on a windgen (pacific 100)

[dweeze]

Hi - I know its should be simple but I've not quite got my head around this.

Im wanting to test the output on a Pacific 100 windgen. Its configured with a regulator and then circuit breaker on the battery side of the regulator.

From what I can read - the unit should throw 12.7v when its got a decent spin on. Is this correct or will the voltage always be subject to the speed of rotation.

To date the only test I have done is to take the cover off the regulator and test the voltage between the generator +ive and battary -ive. This was showing 4.3v and .80v on different days. Both days the gen was spinning but lightly. Does anyone know if testing this way is showing me a true voltage. And does anyone know whether the gen should be putting out 12.7 v even when spinning lightly?

Another possible test in the manual is to take windgen +ive off the reg and take it straight to battery +ive - if I do this am I measuring amps or volts to see what input there is? If I am measuring amps then what is the best way to put the multimeter inline?

And the last test suggested by Pacific was to take the black caps off the brushes either side of the head of the windgen unit and test volts there. If I do this do I need to make sure the brushes that want to pop out when the caps are removed stay in (or do I take them out before testing)? And if I do this sort of test what indicative reading should I get if for example I do it on a windless day and simply spin the rotor by hand (as opposed to doing it while the rotor is spinning).

Apologies if this lot is a little basic.

Thanks - Tim

 

[prescott56]

I would have thought you should have higher voltage than that...in the region of 14V...even when spinning lightly.
you will only get higher amps the quicker it spins.
I assume teh gen is hooked up to a regulator, I woul djust pull the gen wires out of teh regulator and check voltage from there.
o get amps you need to connect an ammeter/tester in line.

sort of gen neg to regulator , gen positive to tester positive, tester negative to regulator.

IMHO
Regards

 

[davidpbo]

[ QUOTE ]
From what I can read - the unit should throw 12.7v when its got a decent spin on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am no expert in this and do not have a wind generator.

Do you suspect the unit is not working or are you just testing it?


I would suggest asking Pacific the wind speed this is measured at and checking it at a similar speed, always assuming you are able to measure windspeed.

Also ask them whether it is safe to run the generator and regulator without them connected to a battery.


[ QUOTE ]

to date the only test I have done is to take the cover off the regulator and test the voltage between the generator +ive and battary -ive.

[/ QUOTE ]

firstly check your battery is OK. If that is faulty it may pulling the output of the regulator down.

with generator/regulator disconnected measure battery voltage. write it down.

If permissible run the generator without the battery connected and measure the voltage across +Ve and -ve regulator output. I would expect to see 13V plus without the battery connected but there may something within the circuit that requires the battery to be connected to read any voltage out of the regulator. Connect the battery, I would expect the volatge to drop possibly to the quoted 12.7 V

[ QUOTE ]
Another possible test in the manual is to take windgen +ive off the reg and take it straight to battery +ive - if I do this am I measuring amps or volts to see what input there is?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMHO you would only want to do this if the there appeared to be no voltage out of the regulator.

It looks as though you are being told to connect the generator direct to the battery, make sure the regulator output is not connected to the battery as well. If the voltage rose when it did not when connected to the regulator it would indicate a faulty regulator.

I would expect to meaure VOLTAGE in this instance between +Ve and -Ve at the battery again.

[ QUOTE ]
If I am measuring amps then what is the best way to put the multimeter inline?

[/ QUOTE ]

Be careful if you do, most cheaper multimeters don't have very high d.c. current range. after the regulator you will almost certainly be measuring D.C and therefore clamp type current meters which can be used to measure higher currents won't work (I don't think).

for this sort of fault I would expect to take volatge measurements most of the time as they are easier to take, you do not have to necessarily break the circuit.

When the fault is found I would want measure the current to the battery as a final test.

[ QUOTE ]
And the last test suggested by Pacific was to take the black caps off the brushes either side of the head of the windgen unit and test volts there. If I do this do I need to make sure the brushes that want to pop out when the caps are removed stay in

[/ QUOTE ]

They need to stay in.
[ QUOTE ]
And if I do this sort of test what indicative reading should I get if for example I do it on a windless day and simply spin the rotor by hand

[/ QUOTE ]

If you do try this be very very careful:
Risk of injury to you.
Bits lost.
Shorting output of generator.

hard to say what sort of voltage you should get. I would settle for a good indication of there being voltage present. You may find an analogue ie moving coil meter, (needle over a back scale ) gives a better "feel" for what is happening than a digital one which takes time to sample. With an analogue meter I would expect to see a good kick of the meter up to 8 or 10V if you give the generator a good swing but I am only guessing.

Apologies if others have already answered better, have been unable to check whilst writing.

Please do not do anything suggested unless you yourself are happy it will do no harm.

David

 

[pappaecho]

Out on the boat today in a brisk Force 4-5. My Rutland 913, was showing 14.2 volts, and it is on 2 banks of 200 amp hours each, and the red light thingy was on indicating that all batteries were fully charged

 

[William_H]

The ultimate test of your wind gen is amps into the battery. A quantity which will vary with degree of battery discharge and of course wind speed.
Current is measured by breaking the +ve wire (or -ve) and inserting the multimeter in the break, +ve lead to the generator and -ve lead toward the battery. If your battery is well charged then turn on high current loads like lights to encourage the gen to replace that current.

As many cheap multimeters do not handle current very well you can fit either permanently or temporarily a resistor which will indicate current across it on your multimeter. A .1ohm resistor will measure 1 volt when 10 amps are flowing or if you use your multimeter on .2volt scale (200mV) then it will measure up to 2 amps. If you think you need greater current range then put 10 x .1ohm resitors in paralell. This will indicate 20 amps max on .2volt scale. The resistors are really cheap from Maplin or similar. Get wire wound resistors 5 watt rating. Off course you could use 2X.1ohm resistors to give 4 amps for .2volt reading but you would have to mentally
double the reading.

You will notice that at full current reading you are actually losing .2 volt to the meter. Beware this drop can actually effect the operation of battery charging so you actually get more current with the resistor removed or bypassed.(than you measured with resitor in) Hopefully however this effect will not matter. The effect is less if you are measuring less current than the resistor meter combination can handle. ie at 2 amps flowing but using 10x.1ohm resistors you are losing .02 volts. (insignificant).

Now as for the gen itself. Does the literature indicate it can be run without a regulator? (quite likely) (although also possible the reg. contains rectifiers essential to convert AC to DC). Ok without reg. would indicate that the gen itself produces DC which could be measured. While disconnected from the battery. It should be quite high with a wind like up to 20 volts. When running without a regulator (as with solar) the output voltage starts quite high with no load but is "pulled" down to that of the battery and only slowly pulls the battery up after time and current goes in. So to check with a voltmeter when battery is connected will only show battery volts which may rise a little as it is charged. Bigger the battery the less noticeable the rise.

When checking with reg. connected, but no battery, you should get a max. of 14 volts although this should be measurable with just a little wind.
(I have heard some gens need a lot of wind to do any good)

good luck..... olewill

 

[dweeze]

Thanks to all for the info

[ QUOTE ]
Do you suspect the unit is not working or are you just testing it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Suspect its not doing its job. More on the testing I've done later.

[ QUOTE ]
Also ask them whether it is safe to run the generator and regulator without them connected to a battery.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reg aparently always needs a battery +ive as its the power and sense for it. Gen can aparently be run straight onto the battery without the reg.

Battery is ok. Showing 12.7v.

[ QUOTE ]
If permissible run the generator without the battery connected and measure the voltage across +Ve and -ve regulator output.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cant disconnect the reg and get a meaning ful reading apparently becuase it needs power and sense - but with everything connected (gen to reg reg to battery) I have tested across the pos and neg of the gen wires - this is where I get a small reading (4 and .8). If I test pos and neg of output side I'm just getting battery voltage (logically).

Other tests i tried along these lines were:

I connected in gen +ive and -ive directly to the battery and tested DC volts - zip, nada, nothing. With same connection and multimeter in series measured on scale of 10amp down to lowest setting on multiM and still zip.

I am a little confused as to why I'm getting small voltages when testing the pos and neg of gen wires when connected to the reg but nothing when directly connected to the battery. Gen is DC output so it should flow.

[ QUOTE ]
Shorting output of generator.

[/ QUOTE ]
interestingly one of the tests the manual recommends is shorting the gen positive and negative together and spinning the rotor to see how much resistance there is.

[ QUOTE ]
Current is measured by breaking the +ve wire (or -ve) and inserting the multimeter in the break, +ve lead to the generator and -ve lead toward the battery. If your battery is well charged then turn on high current loads like lights to encourage the gen to replace that current.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this mean that even when connected directly the gen will only input when its voltage level goes above that of the battery its connected to? I'd always thought that they simply just chucked in charge when connected directly irrespective of battery state (opinion formed through ignorance rather than experience)

[ QUOTE ]
While disconnected from the battery. It should be quite high with a wind like up to 20 volts.

[/ QUOTE ]

with gen totally disconnected from battery and reg, pos and neg on the gen show something like .23v while spinning at a reasonable speed in yesterdays wind.

I'll try testing the frankenstein plugs on the gen itself today as see what that turns up but am beginning to suspect that I've got a wind gen thats not funcitonal.

Thanks again for the help - any more ideas are very welcome.

 

[davidpbo]

It would certainly seem from the v.low voltage at generator output as though it is not working.

I am a bit confused, according to the web site here the 100 does not have "commutator brushes" yet further down in the list of suggested spares it clearly says brushes and caps ???

Are you sure the generator ouputs DC without the regulator? If ampair are telling you it can be connected directly to the battery it would certainly seem as though it is but the stated absence of commmutator brushes makes me question this in the absence of a technical manual.

Check you are using the correct range on the meter to measure the voltage i.e. AC or DC.

I regularly test my meter is working to some degree at least by shorting the two probes together and measuring continuity. It is easy to blow an internal fuse when switching ranges and not know it, especially going between amps and volts, or for a test lead to break.

Does the mechanical resistance of turning the generator increase if its output leads are shorted as you say ampair says that is permissible? IMHO it should do.

Are you able to measure the DC resistance across the brushes at the generator with nothing else (regulator or battery connected)?

 

[boatbuilder]

I have one of these and it has brushes. It also needs a good dollop of wind to get it going. if you are spinning it by hand forget it. Above a f3 mine will start to charge and at max charge it puts out 14v at 6 amps

 

[dweeze]

Ta - do you need a period of time before it starts showing good levels of voltage or does the voltage respond pretty much immediately with the rotation (assuming its not F3 gusty)?

 

[dweeze]

Ok - got it sorted.

For anyone else having similar issues with one of these units..

A couple of ways to test the wind gen.

Pop windgen +ive -ive off - spin the rotor by hand - or at least rock it backwards and forwards and it should show up to 12 volts. Mine was showing about .5.

Turn the rotor by hand and you should feel the 'cogging' as it turns. Mine was light but there.

Take the caps off the brushes and make sure the brushes are looking good, slide easily and are at least 8mm long. Both of mine are still about 15mm long although one of the brushes was sticking in its seating. This was what was causing my problem. To fix it meant popping the windgen off the pole - taking the brushes out and cleaning both them and the copper ring they touch against. Very simple.

If you have the windgen down pop a drill on the shaft to emulate a good wind. With the brushes and rings cleaned mine was showing 40volts when turned with a fairly slow hand drill. Correspondingly you should be able to see up to a couple of amps showing.

Aparently these units will throw up to 100 volts out depending on the rotation speed.

t.

 

[davidpbo]

Well done, thanks for posting the result.

David