Testing an original gas hob

[moomba]

There is also your rights in a private sale
You do have rights if:
• the seller misled you
• they don’t have a right to sell the products
• the item is seriously faulty or unsafe.
under you consumer rights act

 

[JumbleDuck]

product safety regulations 2005
Failing to comply with the above requirements is an offence. The maximum penalty is a fine and two years' imprisonment

Yeah. For manufacturers and distributors. Now show me a law which applies to private second hand sales, and let me know how it permits sale of second hand cars without ABS.

If you sell a gas appliance and it has not got the correct safety devices in full working order then you are braking a law

But not the one you just quoted, which explicit permits the sale of things with non-functioning safety devices.

I suggest that you cut to the chase and claim that it will invalidate somebody's insurance, because that's where these threads of wishful thinking about the law always end up.

 

[JumbleDuck]

How is it then that you can buy single burner, portable gas cookers with a canister all over the place. AFAIK none of these have a flame device.

 

[moomba]

Yeah. For manufacturers and distributors. Now show me a law which applies to private second hand sales, and let me know how it permits sale of second hand cars without ABS.



But not the one you just quoted, which explicit permits the sale of things with non-functioning safety devices.

I suggest that you cut to the chase and claim that it will invalidate somebody's insurance, because that's where these threads of wishful thinking about the law always end up.

I think you are missing the point and if you read the thread closely you will see that I tried to explain it by using my vw camper as an example,
the law says that I do not have to have sea belts in the rear although I can have passengers in the back as the van was 1977 before back seat belts were mandatory( key word), been stopped by police and MOTs all passed no issues.
Now if you sell a car without ABS and the manufacture did not install them and it was passed to Sell in the EU then this is fine , but if you willingly sold a car with ABS not working ,and failed to tell the buyer , you can be prosecuted in many different ways.
Now as Gas cookers are a real issues , in they pre date the CE mark or the law stating that they needed certain safety equipment then they can be legally sold as long as the buyer understands what they are buying.

If you knowingly sell a gas appliance that is faulty or found faulty by a gas engineers , then you will be in trouble through many ways , consumers rights and the 2005 act as mentioned , remember the law is fluid , a trader can be described as an Ebay seller or someone that regularly sells their old boat equipment, could in the eyes of the law be called a trader , it would be up to the courts to decide.
All small camping equipment sold in the EU also has to follow certain procedures laid down by the EU
hope this helps every one and helps people safety sell there cookers in a safe and well mannered way.
It seems that people thing boats are treated differently to caravans and motor homes because no one checks, the problems arise when some one dies and they legislation becomes more intense.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Now as Gas cookers are a real issues , in they pre date the CE mark or the law stating that they needed certain safety equipment then they can be legally sold as long as the buyer understands what they are buying.

I am glad you agree, particularly since that is precisely the opposite of your original claim.

If you knowingly sell a gas appliance that is faulty or found faulty by a gas engineers , then you will be in trouble through many ways , consumers rights and the 2005 act as mentioned

Your original claim, remember, was that anyone selling a full-working gas stove which does not have FSDs was likely to be prosecuted. That's a looooooog way from "knowingly sell a gas appliance that is faulty or found faulty", and anyway, as I have pointed out, the Act explicitly allows the sale of faulty goods.

It won't invalidate your insurance either.

 

[moomba]

I am glad you agree, particularly since that is precisely the opposite of your original claim.



Your original claim, remember, was that anyone selling a full-working gas stove which does not have FSDs was likely to be prosecuted. That's a looooooog way from "knowingly sell a gas appliance that is faulty or found faulty", and anyway, as I have pointed out, the Act explicitly allows the sale of faulty goods.

It won't invalidate your insurance either.

this is the original statement so I do not really know what your saying
he same applies when it comes to gas appliances as there are certain laws and procedures that must be followed and if you knew a gas cooker was unsafe (in it had safety measures when it was manufactured and now they do not work )and you sold it to another party and they got hurt, and then were told by a qualified gas engineer the cooker should have been condemned , I believe you will be liable and potentially up for a criminal prosecution.
Read more at

I think you really should read it only allows faulty goods if you tell the consumer please read my full first quote , I have always said if the person knows who is buying it and also if it falls under past laws , in my statement I used legacy laws , which means that items that were manufactured before they need certain safety procedures can be sold ,
if your boat blows up because of a faulty gas installation or a faulty gas cooker that was not inspected by a gas engineer then you will find an insurance company has every right to invalidate your claim, were do you think a boat is different from a house , you need too read the gas safety rules on installation and who can do this , for insurance purposes to stop any hassle it would be wise every 3 to 5 years having your equipment checked by a qualified gas engineer and keep the certificate in case of an accident, to do nothing about old gas cookers on boats is silly and dangerous.
This is why your high pressure hose has a date on it is recommended to be replaced every 5 years , also on a survey a surveyor always recommends that=t a qualified gas fitter inspects the cooker for safety , this is for your own safety and his liability.

You seem to keep arguing a point which is a real safety issue ,

.Carbon monoxide is the biggest killer have monitors ,
.it is illegal to sell a gas cooker that is faulty or missing its safety devices if you have not told the buyer
.gas appliances that were manufacture before these requirements can be sold legally
.gas cookers need to be installed by a professional gas fitter
,hoses need to be replaced per manufactures requirements
.A surveyor will not test your gas this your responsibility.
.Insurance companies me ask for a gas safety check if your boat blows up , do not underestimate insurance companies , neglect is the biggest cause for not paying out.
.A trader can be in the courts as perhaps some one on Ebay or selling constantly goods (the courts will decide)
.Get you stoves checked and keep an update of certificates keep safe and happy sailing

 

[Ladybirdgaffcutter]

That's interesting, I didn't know 'gas cookers need to be installed by a professional gas fitter'.

 

[JumbleDuck]

this is the original statement so I do not really know what your saying

Sorry - it was mogmog2 who got all hot and bothered about working cookers without FSDs being sold secondhand. I remembered the "m" and two "o"s, got the rest wrong.

if your boat blows up because of a faulty gas installation or a faulty gas cooker that was not inspected by a gas engineer then you will find an insurance company has every right to invalidate your claim

Which clause in your insurance says this? We have contracts with our insurance companies and they can't make up ad hoc conditions.

were do you think a boat is different from a house

My household insurers have never asked me to have the gas system inspected, or made it a condition of insurance.

.gas cookers need to be installed by a professional gas fitter

Even in a house that is not true, although I agree that it is advisable. It most certainly is not true in boats.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I think it's now illegal to install gas stuff in a house without having a Gas Safe qualification although you could perhaps do the installation and have it tested by a qualified person if you could find someone to do that. I don't know of any law that prevents DIY installation on a boat or caravan. I've done both and haven't been arrested yet.

Sorry - it was mogmog2 who got all hot and bothered about working cookers without FSDs being sold secondhand. I remembered the "m" and two "o"s, got the rest wrong.



Which clause in your insurance says this? We have contracts with our insurance companies and they can't make up ad hoc conditions.



My household insurers have never asked me to have the gas system inspected, or made it a condition of insurance.



Even in a house that is not true, although I agree that it is advisable. It most certainly is not true in boats.

 

[mogmog2]

I never got hot under the collar about lack of FFDs. It was about the ethics of selling/offloading an item considered unsafe.

 

[ghostlymoron]

When you sell a secondhand item, you don't know why they want to buy it - they may be exhibiting it in a museum for all you know. So provided you've advised them what the spec is, it's up to the purchaser to decide whether it is suitable for their use.

 

[moomba]

That's interesting, I didn't know 'gas cookers need to be installed by a professional gas fitter'.

In answer to the hundreds of questions we get about DIY gas installation we can state the following.

There is no law to say you cannot do a gas installation yourself providing (under the law) you are competent.

Competent, in this situation however, means you are able to check your installation for any variance in gas pressure from before and after an installation together with a complete understanding of how to check any fitting and/or appliance for leaks that could cause explosions and unwanted or dangerous emissions such as carbon monoxide.

This use of the word "competent" disqualifies most home owners or tenants from DIY gas fitting and any form of gas work and furthermore, without an engineers safety certificate it is almost certain that your home insurance would not pay out in the event of anything going wrong.

According to the Gas Safe Register site the only gas work you are allowed to carry out yourself is that which is stated in the user instructions that accompany a given appliance e.g. a new cooker, boiler etc…. Outside of what is stated in the user instructions should not be touched or attempted by the home owner.

Also stated is that you (the homeowner) should not carry out any work that results in the disturbance of a gas carrying or supply component e.g. a gas supply pipe.


When it comes to DIY gas, the real message here I guess is that if you are in any doubt what-so-ever e.g. you are not currently a gas safe registered engineer or ex-professional registered gas engineer with the necessary skills and knowledge to carryout a job to the letter of the law then leave it to the professionals!

I really don't care much if people want to argue in regards to the law and insurance purposes , Gas is gas its your life and your house, boat , but I urge all to if you have had a boat for a long time and havnt checked your pipes and serviced your unit by a qualified engineer them thats up to you , why get your rigging checked and your sea cocks but not your Gas, madness!!