Testing an original gas hob

ghostlymoron said:
Your cooker won't have a flame failure which makes it unsafe in my opinion and I would replace it. Sell the old one on eBay to someone who is not concerned about safety.
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If it is deemed unsafe, it is unsafe & should be binned. How can you countenance selling it? From the most self-centred perspective, you might be berthed against that someone with the lower safety standards, or just a plain noob who doesn't know.
 
mogmog2 said:
If it is deemed unsafe, it is unsafe & should be binned. How can you countenance selling it? From the most self-centred perspective, you might be berthed against that someone with the lower safety standards, or just a plain noob who doesn't know.
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I'm completely unscrupulous but apart from that I'd probably include a statement in the ad saying 'this item does not comply with latest safety standards'
 
A little info on flame failure devices. When berthed in the marina stern-to the wind our stove has blown out a couple of times. We dumped our old cooker and bought one with a FFD. Unknown to us the old one was picked up by people who subsequently became friends. They installed it nearly 10 years ago and it is still there.
 
vyv_cox said:
A little info on flame failure devices. When berthed in the marina stern-to the wind our stove has blown out a couple of times. We dumped our old cooker and bought one with a FFD. Unknown to us the old one was picked up by people who subsequently became friends. They installed it nearly 10 years ago and it is still there.
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Ah-ha. I've just realised that "marinas" is probably why people bother about these things. The incidence of brisk drafts - enough to blow out a cooker - on a swinging mooring is practically nil.
 
mogmog2 said:
If it is deemed unsafe, it is unsafe & should be binned..
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There is no such thing as "safe" and there is no such thing as "unsafe". It's all relative. Is an angle grinder safe? In the hands of a 3 year old? There is no more reason not to sell an old cooker than there is not to sell an old car (ooooh, no ABS) or a Chippendale chair (no fire certificate).
 
JumbleDuck said:
There is no such thing as "safe" and there is no such thing as "unsafe". It's all relative. Is an angle grinder safe? In the hands of a 3 year old? There is no more reason not to sell an old cooker than there is not to sell an old car (ooooh, no ABS) or a Chippendale chair (no fire certificate).
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Actually not true, I do believe you are quoting common sense , there are historical issues that do not need to be made safe, my old camper did not need rear seat belts as they were not factory fitted in 1977 , but to give a toddler a grinder would be foolish and liable to that persons injuries, but there is no law saying you should not give a child a grinder.
The same applies when it comes to gas appliances as there are certain laws and procedures that must be followed and if you knew a gas cooker was unsafe (in it had safety measures when it was manufactured and now they do not work )and you sold it to another party and they got hurt, and then were told by a qualified gas engineer the cooker should have been condemned , I believe you will be liable and potentially up for a criminal prosecution.
 
moomba said:
... if you knew a gas cooker was unsafe (in it had safety measures when it was manufactured and now they do not work ) ...
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That wouldn't make it unsafe, just less safe. If you claimed that there was a working flame failure device but there wasn't you could be in trouble - civil, not criminal - for representation, but otherwise there is no more reason to scrap a cooker for lack of FFDs than there is to scrap a 1977 camper van for lack of seatbelts.

The law is stricter for businesses, as you might expect: https://www.businesscompanion.info/en/quick-guides/product-safety/second-hand-gas-cooking-appliances
 
My cooker hasn't got FFD but it's not killed me yet, but I'm pretty paranoid about cooking on the boat anyways (by whatever means). I don't cook if I'm not in the cabin and I'm one of those that turns the bottle, tap and cooker on and off each time. I enjoy cooking and wouldn't leave the hob at home let alone on the boat.

If I'm honest I would be more bothered about alcohol catching alight then gas explosions.
 
JumbleDuck said:
That wouldn't make it unsafe, just less safe. If you claimed that there was a working flame failure device but there wasn't you could be in trouble - civil, not criminal - for representation, but otherwise there is no more reason to scrap a cooker for lack of FFDs than there is to scrap a 1977 camper van for lack of seatbelts.

The law is stricter for businesses, as you might expect: https://www.businesscompanion.info/en/quick-guides/product-safety/second-hand-gas-cooking-appliances
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THE camper van does not need rear seat belts for an MOT or for the police to stop it as it was manufactured before the
law came in, therefore no need to fit them, legacy laws,
If the person died after you selling them a gas cooker in which a key safety device was faulty or missing and did not declare this and the person died I would expect , you would be in trouble with the law

Also Second-hand gas cooking appliances must be safe when supplied and a competent person must confirm this
https://www.businesscompanion.info/en/quick-guides/product-safety/second-hand-gas-cooking-appliances

nder the General Product Safety Regulations 2005 it is an offence to supply (and this includes hiring out) a used gas cooking appliance unless it complies with certain safety requirements.

What is a gas cooking appliance?

A gas cooking appliance is any equipment designed, or suitable, for domestic use in the home (including a ship or caravan) and is designed for cooking by the burning of gas, including LPG (liquefied petroleum gas).
Penalties

Failing to comply with the above requirements is an offence. The maximum penalty is a fine and two years' imprisonment

https://www.bromley.gov.uk/leaflet/122600/6/402/ch
 
JumbleDuck said:
Ah-ha. I've just realised that "marinas" is probably why people bother about these things. The incidence of brisk drafts - enough to blow out a cooker - on a swinging mooring is practically nil.
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Although ours has blown out when sailing but that was in warm weather and easy conditions with hatches open. At anchor with hatches closed I agree most unlikely. Our berth in Greece is subject to fresh or strong winds from either direction at times, occasionally on the same day.
 
VicS said:
Lets have a stab at The General Product Safety Regulations 2005, but you will tell us they don't apply to a private individual ?
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As far as I can see, they apply only to producers and distributors. I am happy - as always - to be corrected, but on the basis of facts rather than pious outrage.

Anyone worried about people who sell second-hand boats which don't meet current RCD standards?
 
If you are getting rid of it because it doesn't have a FFD and you've decided that isn't safe, is that more like selling the capervan with no brakes to someone who won't fix them...

If a FFD can be added later that's fine... But if it can't (realistically) it's like the campervan brakes being unrepairable.
 
People have different attitudes to risk so, provided you've made them aware, they may accept or not and I don't see that you can be help to account. Caveat emptor and all that.
 
ShinyShoe said:
If you are getting rid of it because it doesn't have a FFD and you've decided that isn't safe, is that more like selling the capervan with no brakes to someone who won't fix them...
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You're allowed to do that, as long as you make it clear when you sell that a brake repair is needed.
 
I have a 1986 Stevens 34 and recently had to get my safety certificate.

The cooker is LPG and original and I had the regulator and hose for the gas bottle changed two years ago when my Paloma water heater needed replacing. I got this done and the refurbished water heater came from e-bay.

Anyway the safety inspector pulled my cooker out and the single cover black hose was the original so even though numerous safety certificates had been done in the past it had not been checked.

I had a panic but as I was informed I could replace this hose myself and did so in about 10 mins with the correct orange double type.

The very nice safety inspector then did a full gas test and peace of mind was restored.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Under what law?
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product safety regulations 2005
Failing to comply with the above requirements is an offence. The maximum penalty is a fine and two years' imprisonment

the 2 year imprisonment is a give a way.!!!!

Please do not be fooled by buyer be were on Gas appliances , the reason there is a law is gas is bloody dangerous not just to yourself but to others around you,
If you sell a gas appliance and it has not got the correct safety devices in full working order then you are braking a law, there also must be a CE mark to show it is European compliant.
If the Cooker was manufactured before the CE mark or was manufactured at a time when certain safety devices were not needed then it is the buyers concern.
When you buy a boat from a broker or get a survey it should clearly state that the gas has not been tested and you should get it checked. as they are not qualified to say so.
 
ghostlymoron said:
How is it then that you can buy single burner, portable gas cookers with a canister all over the place. AFAIK none of these have a flame device.
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the key word is portable , and most use then in well ventilated or outdoors , were as a standing or large cooker and oven is plumbed in with copper and high pressure hoses , and , use more gas , so if there is a leak there can be a large amount of gas escaping.
If people want to use a portable device on their boat , caravan , house , it is their risk.
 
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