Terrestrial solar power

[Neeves]

‘If 1.5m Germans have them there must be something in it’: how balcony solar is taking off

Not a marine link.

Not sure it will work very well, in summer, the closer you are to the tropics. You do need a balcony, some spare wall or.....some stanchions and life lines

Jonathan

 

[Metalicmike]

We can open up this vertical vs horizontal debate again. One of my many future plans is to fit Stainless tube to the top of my guard rails to hang solar panels. That will be after I have sorted my hydraulic propulsion, mast steps, Instrument panel with touch screen nav system.......... Should have started a YouTube channel but I'm a few years too late. I did record one on Black fingernails to save people the pain and discomfort ( My little contribution to society) its free advice from a very, very experienced person (Me) and it should be taught to everyone.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

How do they get past the problem of it feeding back into the grid if there is a power outage? I notice that Belgium initially banned them for that reason and is now going to allow them.

 

[MontyMariner]

It doesn't have to be vertical, as the actress said to the bishop.

 

[Boathook]

How do they get past the problem of it feeding back into the grid if there is a power outage? I notice that Belgium initially banned them for that reason and is now going to allow them.

Same as they do if you have a back up generator that starts as soon as the grid stops supplying; I assume.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Same as they do if you have a back up generator that starts as soon as the grid stops supplying; I assume.

The article says they just plug into a socket perhaps Plums was the designer. Maybe they rely on the main breaker tripping in the event of a power failure but that doesn't always happen.

 

[Boathook]

The article says they just plug into a socket perhaps Plums was the designer. Maybe they rely on the main breaker tripping in the event of a power failure but that doesn't always happen.

My main breaker doesn't trip if we have a power cut. Would cause chaos with fridge and freezer if away. I think that this applies to most of the UK.
Plug in rcd's is another matter.

 

[kwb78]

The article says they just plug into a socket perhaps Plums was the designer. Maybe they rely on the main breaker tripping in the event of a power failure but that doesn't always happen.

The inverters are designed to only supply power to the grid if the grid is live. They will not output anything during a power cut so they don't back feed the grid and energise a cable that might be being worked on. Inverters intended for use as a backup during a mains failure are configured and wired differently so that their output is not directly connected to the mains.

 

[William_H]

I would be skeptical of 1.5 m apartments having them. Does that really mean 1.5 million? Apart from that it seems like a good idea. Not so successful here in Perth (west oz) where in summer midday sun is 30 degrees from vertical. Even worse in tropics. I suppose a system to tilt panels outwards towards horizontal would complicate installation.
On the roof is obviously the best place for household solar PV. So much so that electricity grids are become unstable with the amount of solar PV put in during day light hours. The answer is battery back up. But as said installation costs become significant relative to PV panel costs. Nowdays 6kw seems to be a normal house hold size. Partly because panels are so much more efficient and partly because they are so much cheaper. Meanwhile my 1500w system chugs along having paid for itself many times over after 12 years. ol'will

 

[KompetentKrew]

The inverters are designed to only supply power to the grid if the grid is live. They will not output anything during a power cut so they don't back feed the grid and energise a cable that might be being worked on.

My recollection is that microinverters sync their AC frequency to the grid and can't output power in the absence of the grid?

 

[Neeves]

I would be skeptical of 1.5 m apartments having them. Does that really mean 1.5 million? Apart from that it seems like a good idea. Not so successful here in Perth (west oz) where in summer midday sun is 30 degrees from vertical. Even worse in tropics. I suppose a system to tilt panels outwards towards horizontal would complicate installation.
On the roof is obviously the best place for household solar PV. So much so that electricity grids are become unstable with the amount of solar PV put in during day light hours. The answer is battery back up. But as said installation costs become significant relative to PV panel costs. Nowdays 6kw seems to be a normal house hold size. Partly because panels are so much more efficient and partly because they are so much cheaper. Meanwhile my 1500w system chugs along having paid for itself many times over after 12 years. ol'will

The roof does not work in much of 'Continental' Europe as many people live in apartments and don't 'own' the roof. The apartments are not necessarily 'high rise' - so only a few units per building. 1.5 million installations with a population of 84 million in Germany is hardly significant market penetration. The panel on the balcony allows the individual to reduce their personal electricity usage from the grid (and take the panels with them when they move). I agree tilting panels would seem more sensible (and it would not be difficult to design a simple frame to do the same).

As William H mentions uptake of solar (Australia is said to have the highest uptake per head) and the high yields possible cause problems as parts of the Australian grid is over-supplied during the height of the day and few households have batteries. Incentives were, most have been phased out now, focussed at the panels not the battery. Using google - then 3.6 million households (or domestic installations) in Australia's have installed solar for a population of 27 million - making the figure quoted for Germany to be insignificant, for a population of 87 million.

Extrapolating ...... to 'our' marine application it seems Germany is actually geared up for the supply of panels and the associated hardware for stanchion 'hung' panels. I assume it all comes as a kit in a couple of boxes (and the same kit could be placed on the cabin roof). I am surprised that vertical panels give the yield sufficient to justify the investment - but tilt them and the yields will increase.

Jonathan

 

[thinwater]

I would be skeptical of 1.5 m apartments having them. Does that really mean 1.5 million? Apart from that it seems like a good idea. Not so successful here in Perth (west oz) where in summer midday sun is 30 degrees from vertical. Even worse in tropics. I suppose a system to tilt panels outwards towards horizontal would complicate installation.
On the roof is obviously the best place for household solar PV. So much so that electricity grids are become unstable with the amount of solar PV put in during day light hours. The answer is battery back up. But as said installation costs become significant relative to PV panel costs. Nowdays 6kw seems to be a normal house hold size. Partly because panels are so much more efficient and partly because they are so much cheaper. Meanwhile my 1500w system chugs along having paid for itself many times over after 12 years. ol'will

The article is in Germany. Berlin is 52 north. London is 51 north.

When vertical really pays is when you can use bifacial panels. For example, the roofs, particularly flat, are not a great in Germany in the winter (snow). Bifacial vertical panels, oriented in north south rows, also excel morning and evening, and in cloudy weather.

Not one-size-fits-all.