Tender size & recommendation please.

Vonasi said:
Our boat is only a 33 and we are able to store a Seahopper folding dinghy in its assembled state right way up across the boat between the mast and sprayhood with no problems and no restrictions to access down the side decks (in fact the tender makes a great hand hold). Right way up is actually very convenient for both launching and for storing fenders in when sailing. I'd say the Seahopper is probably a bit bigger than an optimist. So do some measurements and try to avoid the common mistake of thinking you have to store the dinghy on the foredeck - it takes up far too much useful space up there! People often ask how we cope with it blocking the view through the sprayhood windows to which we always have to laugh and ask 'whoever steers their boat and keeps a lookout looking through sprayhood windows?' The biggest challenge for us was how to store the spars for the sailing rig - we ended up putting them behind the stbd saloon seat with holes drilled so that they could poke into the galley cupboard!
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There is a big difference between your boat and the little 27' boat the OP has.

Can see why you like the tender you have, but for all your enthusiasm, you are in a very small minority. Presumably others have considered doing the same as you but have chosen a different route. Inflatables seem for most people to be the best compromise.
 
vyv_cox said:
I agree, later Avons are a different matter, although they share the problems of sticky Airdecks with many other makes. I suspect those to be bought in from a dedicated manufacturer.
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In the last few months of Welsh manufacture, the last Avon airdecks were, sadly, provided with PVC Chinese airdecks.

We didn't support it so we lost it!
 
Vonasi said:
You hit the nail on the head. Inflatables are a compromise. They make you have to compromise in a lot of areas. You want a dinghy that rows well, you compromise and get one that doesn't. You want a dinghy with volume inside, you compromise and get one that's all tubes and no space. You want a dinghy that lasts a long time, you compromise and get one that falls to bits in the sun. Some people are obviously willing to compromise far more than others.

The compromise with our folding dinghy is that we have to stick a couple of coats of varnish on it every other year. I'll suffer that compromise gladly over all the others mentioned.
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Strange how so few people accept the same compromise that you do! After all they are faced with the same choice as you and choose differently.
 
Vonasi, I don't think your recommendation will work on the OP's boat. So I don't think it's disagreeable to disagree with it...
 
Vonasi said:
I wasn't recommending a boat exactly the same as I have but just pointing out the benefits of having a rigid or folding hard dinghy over a deflatable. It would appear, as with everything in life that some people see being a little different or off the beaten path as being wrong rather than as having an open mind to new or different ideas. Humility is a great quality and being able to see that sometimes your decisions could have been improved upon is to be recommended. There are some people on this forum who lack these qualities. I have lived with a folding/rigid dinghy as my daily tender for over 13 years now and so I have the experience to compare its ownership to that of the many friends who have defalatables. If people want to disrespect that experience then to be honest with you life is too short to really give a monkey's f... doo da about what dinghy someone else decides to use. Let them make their own mistakes if it means I don't have to waste my life away defending my opinion on such an unimportant subject.

This forums is for information, assistance and entertainment I thought. If it's about arguing then I'm out of here.
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However, by ignoring what the majority choose suggests a closed mind, rather than an open one. Rigid dinghies, folding dinghies, fabric dinghies, plastic dinghies, nesting dinghies etc have been on the market for years, with makers coming and going, DIY in and out of favour - but have never gained mass market appeal.

Don't think anybody, least of all me, is doubting your experience, nor ignoring your satisfaction with your choice. All I am pointing out is that the majority of people make a different choice, and it is not through ignorance of the alternatives - they are there for all to see and buy (or make) if they choose. The choice of the majority is just a different compromise from yours. There is no ideal solution to the problem. You have chosen the solution that suits you, others choose differently, having been through a similar process to you, seen (and maybe even experienced) the benefits of the alternatives.

Surely freedom of choice and respect for other peoples' decisions are to applauded.
 
Tranona said:
However, by ignoring what the majority choose suggests a closed mind, rather than an open one. Rigid dinghies, folding dinghies, fabric dinghies, plastic dinghies, nesting dinghies etc have been on the market for years, with makers coming and going, DIY in and out of favour - but have never gained mass market appeal.

Don't think anybody, least of all me, is doubting your experience, nor ignoring your satisfaction with your choice. All I am pointing out is that the majority of people make a different choice, and it is not through ignorance of the alternatives - they are there for all to see and buy (or make) if they choose. The choice of the majority is just a different compromise from yours. There is no ideal solution to the problem. You have chosen the solution that suits you, others choose differently, having been through a similar process to you, seen (and maybe even experienced) the benefits of the alternatives.

Surely freedom of choice and respect for other peoples' decisions are to applauded.
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Not quite true. I have stated half a dozen times on these forums that I have been completely unsuccessful buying a rigid dinghy for my boat in the Ionian. The best I came up with was a 2 metre Plastimo thing for 1000 Euro paid in cash in advance and delivered when it "arrived". Another Chandler said he could get a Walker something for 1,500 Euro also in cash but no delivery date.

The Chandler in Preveza town did come up with a used Tabur Yak on UK ebay but no delivery to Greece possible. They still make them under the "Bic" name but the same conditions cash in advance and expect delivery when it arrives. I could buy any number of inflatables in Greece or shipped from UK because they can be delivered and stored in a small square cardboard box. I have given up trying to buy a rigid dinghy so I will build my own. The last thing I need, is to have a delivery arrive when I am back in Sweden for the winter.

As for the comment about the majority being right because they are the majority has a very famous rejoinder. "The most popular food in the world is animal s h i t because two hundred trillion flies can't be wrong".

EDIT if its not too late to edit. One Greek Chandler told me that new rules meant that he cannot import stuff himself but must go through a registered agent usually in Athens. So no agent no dinghy. No idea if this is true or just an excuse but the outcome is the same. Buy an inflatable. I reckon there is a business opening for someone. Any way it is all about choice.
 
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To the OP -:

I know that your post was about whether to get a 2.3m or larger inflatable for your Vega, but I have found the perfect tender for you .....
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2...cht-Tender-2392975/United-States#.Uv4RLvl_v9s

This tender is obviously much better than an inflatable so it must be right for your Vega and your budget.

I have been using these tenders for years on my fleet of superyachts and I really can't see why anyone would use anything else. The handy thing is that you will be able to store your Vega on the tender foredeck!
 
Vonasi said:
Entertaining, which is slightly more in the spirit of the forum but surely the OP would be much better off with one of these:
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Amazingly, I did use a tender almost exactly like this last year. I was photographing an anchor dug into the beach for an article, so I swam it ashore on a ring like this, found blowing across open sea several years ago, with the camera in a waterproof bag lying on top of the anchor.
 
So it's saggy deflateables versus stinky delaminators, or perhaps just different people's choices to be debated, but respected. There may be more than one right answer to this question.
 
RupertW said:
There may be more than one right answer to this question.
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Not being facetious, if there *is* an alternative to an inflatable which can be practically stowed and deployed from a 27ft Albin Vega, I, for one, would be interested to hear what that is.
 
Just like Vonasi we have a rigid dingy.
I build the first one ( A Barrow 7´6” sailor ) to learn the kids sail. While building I made some changes to make the proportions better fit our “Big “ small yacht.
When starting cruising I decided to take the sailing dingy with us, to have a try. After all, a beautiful made Barrow sailor looks better behind a classic wooden yacht. If the wooden dingy proved to frail we could buy an inflatable everywhere.
After 13 years of Med sun, the epoxy glue started failing. So in stead of repairing the dingy, Asim, a Turkish glass fibre entrepreneur and I made a mold of the old one. Had to make lots of changes to make the mold releasing, also no more dagger board case, but a long keel. The rig for the new glass fibre dingy was almost doubled in size. Cost me less than 50€, Asim could keep the mold and the old dingy. He still uses it as a tender for his sailing yacht.
The dingy is used for transport, laying fishing nets, trawling under sail. I am a liveaboard all year, dingy is in use 365 days a year, a real workhorse.
Had we chosen a deflatable, a quick calculation : Most of my friends buy a new inflatable every 5 years. They are half time liveaboards, often in marinas where dingy´s don’t suffer. That means I probably had to buy a new dingy every 3 to 4 years.
Liveaboard for 25 years now.......
We tow the dingy, witch is 99% of time no problem. At times a towed rigid dingy can be annoying but been ever reddy for use makes up for that.
For instance, in Ladico bay Rhodos, our ever reddy dingy, me and my old Northill anchor saved a big catamaran from ending into the rocks. Both the props fouled into floating tape landlines, a dragging main anchor, and the big rib hanging in davits. The outboard had to be lowered using a crane and would have been useless anyway between those hulls, the floating spaghetti and the rocks.

For most yachts an inflatable soother is the best solution, I just wish manufacturers made an effort to make them better to row. It is not just the labour of rowing them, people feel ridicules milling those little spoons witch is why almost everyone uses an engine.
Old man now, glad rowing so much kept me fit.
 
I didn't realise there was so much hate for roundtail Avons.
If anybody is blighted by one, I will take it off your hands for a very reasonable fee.
 
OldBawley said:
Just like Vonasi we have a rigid dingy.
I build the first one ( A Barrow 7´6” sailor ) to learn the kids sail. While building I made some changes to make the proportions better fit our “Big “ small yacht..... a beautiful made Barrow sailor looks better behind a classic wooden yacht.
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If that beauty in your Avatar is your "big" small yacht, then it does not look like a 27 footer!

It is an interesting idea that someone could give some thought to a production solid tender for small yachts.

Looking at the folding boats available, could it be realistic to have a solid tender made up that will take up as little room as a deflated tender? If so, the problems would seem to be (a) assembly time and (b) the high cost (judging by the ££££s of currently available folding boats). I remain to be convinced that this is possible.

This lot http://www.nestawayboats.com/page2.htm seem to know what they are doing with folding boats but their promo picture shows this, (their smallest boat), taking up most of the foredeck on a 36 footer! Not a great promo picture in my opinion as I wouldn't want the hatch blocked with 80 kg of lashed down GRP if I was sleeping in the forepeak!

And for the £2.5K that it would set you back, you could buy enough disposable inflatables to last you over 25 years!

A guy I know was very excited about his new solid sailing tender which he bought for his newish 38 ft Najad. (Actually, it was a Birthday present his wife had asked for. Lucky man!) But, when they tried it, they found it was too unwieldy and cumbersome and they have gone back to their inflatable. So, even on a 38 footer, a solid tender is not everyone's cup of tea. Cost is not really a problem for them, so it was purely a practical thing. Also, they are very boat proud and I think they felt that there were too many knocks to their beautiful (expensive) Najad from the tender.

If there was a a solid tender that is stowable, reasonably priced, wouldn't clutter up the decks, fit with a baby stay and not get in the way of the storm jib/genoa and could stored below if I needed to reduce windage in a big blow, then I would definitely buy one.

As far as I am aware, though, there is no tender other than an inflatable that meets those criteria for a small yacht.
 
an amusing read
If I might insert my ha'porth.

As with anchors there is unlikely to be an all-round "best".

It all depends on what your functional specs might be;-

Inflatables fold small - mostly they row badly and die quickly. The cheapest, in glued lightweight pvc, last about 12 months in high UV areas like the Med. before falling apart (literally). To last any length of time they need to be in hypalon (x2 the price because of all the manual glueing). Of all dinghies the old Avon range (Redstart, Redcrest) are the most long-lived, but wet, un-rowable and almost un-motorable. I have one one at home but would not consider it a replacement for the German AB Sport inflatable I'm currently using.
Rigids definitely motor and row better than any inflatable (mainly down to LOA differences), I'd prefer aluminium to wood having had both, and definitely would have ample buoyancy inbuilt. I've seen several dinghies sink on moorings during a thunderstorm.
Having an inadequate annex is a major error, even if single-handed - it needs to carry three which is around a 2.6m inflatable. Mine planes on a 3.3 short-shaft OB one up. It's certainly a mistake to use a long-shaft OB on a normal dinghy.

For the OP, I'd suggest a rigid or inflatable sea-kayak - the best compromise of which I can think ;-)
 
I am usually terrified in a rigid dinghy. They always feel as if they are about to capsize or dip one end of their transoms in the water and fill, to me!
 
Steve C Cronin said:
I am usually terrified in a rigid dinghy. They always feel as if they are about to capsize or dip one end of their transoms in the water and fill, to me!
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Me too. When I had a test sail on my current boat she was on the pile moorings at Pwllheli. We were taken out, a distance of no more than 50 yards, in a BIC dinghy, one of those that appears almost rectangular from every aspect. Horrible experience, even though we had been canoeing for many years. It felt very tippy and unstable, enough to convince me to stay with inflatables.
 
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