Tender size & recommendation please.

Persuasive arguments for a rigid dinghy I must admit............until you have been in one in a slop and it is slowly filling up with water coming over the top despite your very best attempts to prevent it happening. Will I reach the boat will I sink? Too exciting for me!
 
Two year ago I rescued a fit young man rowing an inflatable who was totally unable to row against the wind and was disappearing over the horizon. I was onshore, climbed into the dinghy, caught up with him, took his painter and towed him back to his boat. His dinghy was an old Avon type with a floppy floor, rowlocks that don't hold the oars in and a poor rowing position. Mine is an Airdeck with an inflatable keel that I think rows pretty well. Inflatables are not all the same.

His wife was very grateful. He said absolutely nothing to me and disappeared below.
 
Tranona said:
The situation with PVC inflatables is nowhere near as dire as some would have you believe. My Plastimo basic type is still going strong after 10 years in the Med and you will find many people who get good service out of the Chinese PVC boats. Almost nobody makes Hypalon type inflatables now because the cost differential is so great and few people can justify that expenditure when PVC is adequate. If you are voyaging single handed then your dinghy will be folded most of the time and if you keep it in its bag on deck it will not suffer from the elements. If you intend leaving it inflated for long periods in the sun, buy or make some covers for the tubes and this will extend the life. Do not be tempted as some suggest to tow it other than short trips.

If you can find one the best buy is a secondhand Avon Redstart or perhaps Redcrest in good condition. Still the best and most durable, but have single skin bottoms and round tails so not good under motor, and lethal with a longshaft for the reasons given earlier. But hard to beat as a tender to a small sailboat like yours as they have big tubes, reasonable to row once you get the hang of them and just about indestructible.
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Yes it is! Three went pop (literally) on our pontoon alone last year. oldest was a 5 -y-o. Mine was only three.
 
Just this week I've ordered a Highfield Ultralight 260 in Hypalon. We've borrowed an identical one in Croatia and were impressed.

Aluminium floor, weighs 29kg which seems light for a 260. We've only got a 2.5 outboard but I wanted something easy-ish to carry.

It's rather expensive but should survive Med sunshine.

Richard
 
Vonasi said:
I would say that most people who make the claim that their inflatable dinghy rows well have never rowed a light weight rigid one to compare it against.
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Pay attention at the back. Of course almost all rigid dinghies row much better than inflatables, but a rib (the clue is in the acronym) are basically rigid dinghies with tubes around the outside and can row pretty well - although I admit I see many people doing it badly. I grew up with rigid dinghies and like the compromise of ribs. The difference between your dinghy and a rib is a matter of scale - the proportion of protective tubes to rigid skin. And of course the massive weight advantage of light plywood versus bulletproof grp.

You are clearly an afficionado of rigid dinghys whilst I am very happy to have grown out of them, and anything to do with plywood - but we make our choices and can change our minds depending on what we want at a particular time.
 
Steve C Cronin said:
Yes it is! Three went pop (literally) on our pontoon alone last year. oldest was a 5 -y-o. Mine was only three.
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So you base your categoric statement on a sample of 3 - out of the thousands that are in service all over the world. (Never mind the various examples here that contradict you!)
 
If I may return to the original question.

I have used three different inflatables with my Vega. A Bombard AX2, an Avon Rescrest, and a Seago 2.3m air deck hardtail.

The Bombard was the lightest and easiest to manhandle, but had rubbish rowlocks and so little freeboard that we nearly swamped once off the isle of Muck. Never used it again after that.
The Seago had the best capacity, and the air floor was nice for keeping things dry inside. Reasonable rowlocks and with the hard transom was the best under power. However when rolled up and stowed at the mast foot, it stuck out over the side decks and tripped you up every time you went forward. Also it's weight made it a right pain to swing over the side using a halyard.
The Avon is the clear winner. With no transom, it can be made to fold up into a neat package. It is light enough to singelhandedly inflate and launch. And it rows pretty well as it has the best rowlocks. I very rarely motor it though: it is tricky to launch it over the side with the bracket attached, without banging into the hull, and you cannot simply pop the bracket on after launch as you have to deflate it quite a bit first. I've ended up lashing a fender to the bracket before launch to stop it banging into the hull.

Launch/recovery takes about five minutes, maybe less. I use the spinny up haul to hoist the deflated but unrolled dinghy into the air, using one of the side ropes. It then lies in the side deck space. Electric pump to inflate. Hoist it another couple of feet, swing it out past the shrouds, and then lower it to the water. Remember to stow the genoa sheet out of the way first by slackening it off and tucking it out of the way.
Recovery is just the same in reverse. You have to use the side deck, with the dinghy sitting on one tube as there is no deck space big enough to lay it out on the Vega.

Finally, I never ever tow it on a passage- I did try it a few times at first, and found I spent eight hours regretting the five minutes I had 'saved' by not bothering to stow it.
 
Mavanier said:
If I may return to the original question.

I have used three different inflatables with my Vega. A Bombard AX2, an Avon Rescrest, and a Seago 2.3m air deck hardtail.

The Bombard was the lightest and easiest to manhandle, but had rubbish rowlocks and so little freeboard that we nearly swamped once off the isle of Muck. Never used it again after that.
The Seago had the best capacity, and the air floor was nice for keeping things dry inside. Reasonable rowlocks and with the hard transom was the best under power. However when rolled up and stowed at the mast foot, it stuck out over the side decks and tripped you up every time you went forward. Also it's weight made it a right pain to swing over the side using a halyard.
The Avon is the clear winner. With no transom, it can be made to fold up into a neat package. It is light enough to singelhandedly inflate and launch. And it rows pretty well as it has the best rowlocks. I very rarely motor it though: it is tricky to launch it over the side with the bracket attached, without banging into the hull, and you cannot simply pop the bracket on after launch as you have to deflate it quite a bit first. I've ended up lashing a fender to the bracket before launch to stop it banging into the hull.

Launch/recovery takes about five minutes, maybe less. I use the spinny up haul to hoist the deflated but unrolled dinghy into the air, using one of the side ropes. It then lies in the side deck space. Electric pump to inflate. Hoist it another couple of feet, swing it out past the shrouds, and then lower it to the water. Remember to stow the genoa sheet out of the way first by slackening it off and tucking it out of the way.
Recovery is just the same in reverse. You have to use the side deck, with the dinghy sitting on one tube as there is no deck space big enough to lay it out on the Vega.

Finally, I never ever tow it on a passage- I did try it a few times at first, and found I spent eight hours regretting the five minutes I had 'saved' by not bothering to stow it.
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Hi Mavanier.

Thanks for that info, you have saved me a few head aches I think, as I was looking at 2.7.

I will go 2.3 or less.
 
Tranona said:
So you base your categoric statement on a sample of 3 - out of the thousands that are in service all over the world. (Never mind the various examples here that contradict you!)
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B o ll ...X!

You know I didn't say that, hence the word "alone". They are all over Greece in bins in marinas. There are three (that number again!) piles of them on the quays of Gouvia Marina, right now. Even if made from hypalon, that is not enough. They have to be glued with Bostik 2402 + catalyst D Bostikure to be as good as an Avon. You should see my rescued and refurbished 11yo Avon 280Air Rover. Immaculate!

Before as bought for £150 from a coalhouse in Essex
View attachment 39962


After, following a good clean, re-glueing some small parts of the rubbing strake and buying a replacement for the missing floor.
View attachment 39961
 
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Vonasi said:
If I look out of my window I can see another three sorry looking deflating examples on the pontoon. Should we add them to the survey?
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Agree completely that inflatable dinghies are the invention of the devil. My present boat came with three of the things. None of them kept their air for more than a few hours. One storage compartment on my Moody was full of patch material and various tins of glue. There were folding oars everywhere, a metal thing for an outboard on the Avon. Two were Plastimo, one Avon. Three pumps with tangled hose and various adapters. Two storage bags. A plastic bailer. Removable seats. I am sure I have forgotten something. The boat was literally awash with inflatable boat bits.

My cruise in 2013 was totally ruined by the dinghies. Continually swapping them around because I couldn't believe that none of them were any use. To cut to the chase, I swore that I would go back to a rigid dinghy. I was quoted around 1,200 Euros paid in advance and delivered when it "arrived".

Never again. My boat will not be launched until I have a rigid dinghy so I decided to build one. I was advised by a guy in Vlicko to lay GRP mat on a plastic sheet to make thin GRP sheets which can then be released and easily bent to shape and tacked together. Design on the fly. When the geometry has been done the dinghy can then be layered with more GRP to finish. I start in a few days to build one. The Moody has a baby stay so the foredeck is small so a nesting dinghy will have to be a compromise. My Aries will prevent a davit storage solution.

I hate owning an nflatable. In the early morning when I want to buy bread, the dinghy is a bendy banana. in the afternoon heat it is bursting with pressure.

I have no problem with other folk having an inflatable if they dispose of them properly. The shoreline in Actio (last Autumn) had two or three abandoned de-flatables littering the shore line. They certainly have their advantages, when new, but for my style of cruising the cons outweigh the pro's.

A simple choice for me. A no fuss rigid dinghy to release heaps of stowage (pumps, seats, outboard brackets, glue, patches, etc.) which are basically useless in themselves but necessary inflatables accessories. And this does not start to address the expensive ugly covers on the tubes.
 
Steve C Cronin said:
B o ll ...X!

You know I didn't say that, hence the word "alone". They are all over Greece in bins in marinas. There are three (that number again!) piles of them on the quays of Gouvia Marina, right now. Even if made from hypalon, that is not enough. They have to be glued with Bostik 2402 + catalyst D Bostikure to be as good as an Avon. You should see my rescued and refurbished 11yo Avon 280Air Rover. Immaculate!
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Don't disagree that an Avon is a far superior product. My 1978 Redcrest is still going fine with just one patch in the floor. Also don't disagree that PVC boats are more likely to fail. HOWEVER, if the vast majority of boats in service are PVC (as they have been for many years) you would expect most of the failed ones to be PVC.

What that does not necessarily mean is that PVC in general does not give good service, or good value for money being about one third the cost of a Hypalon boat.

You will also see that I suggested the OP find a Redstart as being perfect for his needs, but that option is not open to everybody as the supply is very limited.

Having been involved in the manufacture of inflatables at the time when PVC first came in, it was clear that the days of Hypalon were numbered. Not only was the material becoming expensive, but the manufacturing process did not lend itself to mechanisation. While it was a niche product this was less of an issue, but with the explosion of the leisure and charter market from the 1980's on resulted in the product becoming mass market. As with all mass market products there are always sub sectors where the product is less than ideal, but overall these boats do seem to meet the needs of the majority of the market.
 
I don't know why this thread has degenerated into a hard vs inflatable argument.
The OP has an Albin Vega. Therefore, he does not have stowage for a rigid dinghy.
I would like a rigid dinghy. I have experimented with stowing one on the Vega. It does not work!
 
Mavanier said:
I don't know why this thread has degenerated into a hard vs inflatable argument.
The OP has an Albin Vega. Therefore, he does not have stowage for a rigid dinghy.
I would like a rigid dinghy. I have experimented with stowing one on the Vega. It does not work!
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Hi Mavanier.

I did think on a bay walker on davits, but the Navik ruined that idea. Listening to all the arguments here is interesting, reading between the lines.

If you have to buy a Blow up, make it Avon.

(Ian Porter sold my Wayfarer within a week)
 
Al. said:
Hi Mavanier.

I did think on a bay walker on davits, but the Navik ruined that idea. Listening to all the arguments here is interesting, reading between the lines.

If you have to buy a Blow up, make it Avon.

(Ian Porter sold my Wayfarer within a week)
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There are many small cruising boats that circled the globe before the bar was raised to 40 feet. I am thinking of one in particular who sailed from South Africa in a boat around 20 foot. He stowed his rigid dinghy over the main hatch as a spray hood. Some photos in his book but can't remember the name. I have seen others with the same idea. If you build one out of plywood you can tailor make it to serve a dual purpose so it fits the deck closely. Don't give up.
 
vyv_cox said:
A doughnut Avon has to be the worst inflatable ever devised. Dreadful to row, dangerous to motor thanks to its propensity to back flip. I owned one for about a month and got rid of it fast. Its only advantages are that it packs up small and lasts a long time.
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The Rovers are a much better prospect, especially the Airdecks with inflatable keel.
 
Mavanier said:
I don't know why this thread has degenerated into a hard vs inflatable argument.
The OP has an Albin Vega. Therefore, he does not have stowage for a rigid dinghy.
I would like a rigid dinghy. I have experimented with stowing one on the Vega. It does not work!
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Yes, as someone who owned a 23' and now a 30', the thread was making me wonder if I was missing something since I can't conceive of how to store a solid dinghy on a boat that size. I would prefer a rigid dinghy if I could accommodate and afford one, but that is just not an option. So, however evil and useless inflatables seem to be to some, they are a clever useful, invaluable option for some of us. And some people seem to find them perfectly acceptable.

I have looked into the possibility of folding boats and even using an optimist (I like the idea of a sailing tender) but nothing really seems practical on a smallish yacht.
 
Vonasi said:
Our boat is only a 33 and we are able to store a Seahopper folding dinghy in its assembled state right way up across the boat between the mast and sprayhood with no problems and no restrictions to access down the side decks (in fact the tender makes a great hand hold). Right way up is actually very convenient for both launching and for storing fenders in when sailing. I'd say the Seahopper is probably a bit bigger than an optimist. So do some measurements and try to avoid the common mistake of thinking you have to store the dinghy on the foredeck - it takes up far too much useful space up there! People often ask how we cope with it blocking the view through the sprayhood windows to which we always have to laugh and ask 'whoever steers their boat and keeps a lookout looking through sprayhood windows?' The biggest challenge for us was how to store the spars for the sailing rig - we ended up putting them behind the stbd saloon seat with holes drilled so that they could poke into the galley cupboard!
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I will certainly take a look at the possibilities when I get aboard my 30'. But, I am a bit OCD about having uncluttered decks.

I recently read a great book ?Passage through the Torres Straits? where the chap went all over the place with a kayak for a tender. (Not a folding kayak.) An interesting idea for those who can.

You could probably fit a folding kayak onto something the size of a Vega. Add a couple of outriggers and a sailing rig and you suddenly don't need a yacht , at all!
 
I experimented with an opti, or rather a tender that had an opti rig and a pointy bow. If anything it was probably smaller than an opti. It did fit onto the foredeck (no way would it have fitted under the boom!) but would have made anchor work a complete nightmare. Plus is was smaller and far less stable, and wetter, than our Avon. I only put it on and off whilst berthed at a pontoon, would not have liked to have tried my singlehanded spinny uphaul trick with that one, it probably weighed twice what the Avon does, and would have bashed the cr*p out of the hull on its way.

Avons aren't so bad to row if you: a) don't take more than 2 people; b) haven't got anything else to compare it to!
 
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