Tempoary registration question.

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the_wanderer

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Please could somebody clarify this situation. I use my boat on the Norfolk Broads on temporary licences for four weeks a year and on other places such as the Thames estuary and coastal waters. I do not have a safety certificate for this boat. Therefore it is my belief that is where the boat is usually used. Last year I wanted to buy a tempoary registration at a lock and had some trouble but with some negotiation managed to obtain registration. I stated that I was quite happy to have the boat "jumped" by inspectors as it had already been "jumped" previously and was given a clean bill of health.

It is my belief that the Thames is a public highway and there is a right of navigation to anybody on payment of the appropriate fee. Why is it I had so much trouble in obtaining temporary registration when there are so many "fraggles" living on obiously un registered boats, using the locks, and having obviously dangerous boats?


Regards.

Alan.
 
For a visitor's licence on EA or BW waters you don't need a BSS, you just have to sign a declaration stating that your vessel complies with the standards. You do have to have Third Party insurance cover - well for BW and soon for EA.

It may be that your boat doesn't need a BSS - do a Google for their website if you don't already know.

I won't go into the rights or wrongs, but taking up Cuchilo's point - it is at the very least antisocial if you are using visitor status to avoid the need for a safety check, knowing that your boat doesn't comply.

As to your last point, it's a matter of pragmatism. The lockkeeper can refuse you entry. Once on the River it's a helluva problem to get you removed it you're any size.

The BSS is mainly concerned with Gas and the safety of folks other than you, not so much with construction and maintenance, so naturally fellow boaters feel concerned.
 
TrueBlue said:
snip>>>>>>

The lockkeeper can refuse you entry.

<<<<<<
Click to expand...


I have been told that they do not have the power to refuse you entry because it is a public highway. the EA can of course take you to court if you fail to pay your dues but I don't believe they can prevent you from passing through locks regardless of your licensing status. It was a Thames lock keeper who told me this. perhaps I misunderstood.

they may, however, be able to impound your boat on the grounds of safety. Not sure.
 
See what happens if you try driving a car on a public highway without paying your dues (Road Tax), having Insurance or a valid MOT.

Why should the Thames be any different?
 
Outinthedinghy said:
I have been told that they do not have the power to refuse you entry because it is a public highway. the EA can of course take you to court if you fail to pay your dues but I don't believe they can prevent you from passing through locks regardless of your licensing status. It was a Thames lock keeper who told me this. perhaps I misunderstood.

they may, however, be able to impound your boat on the grounds of safety. Not sure.
Click to expand...

We do indeed have the power to refuse you entry , but only if we beleive the boat to be unsafe .... eg giant barrels of petrol on the deck with a cooker next to them ....

As to whether we are qualified to make that decision , that remains to be seen , we are trying to sort it out now.

We found all this out last year after an incident on our reach that i won't go into now. But yes , lockstaff can refuse entry if they wish ( but they need to be able to justify it )
 
Thanks for clarifying that.

As I said in my earlier post I suspect there would be a right to prevent passage on safety grounds.

However, if I were arrive at a lock with an old diesel powered lifeboat with no license and nothing clearly dangerous about it I will not be refused passage even if I fail to buy a visitor license.
 
teddington_lock said:
If you refuse to buy a licence , you would be issued with an unregistered report and allowed to proceed.

Legal would take it from there.
Click to expand...

just out of interest, if a boat did this, but was say a liveaboard boat with the owner constantly on the move and with no other fixed abode, to what extent / sucess would have your legal team have?

Only reason I ask, is that I have just cycled down the canal path near me (grand union) and have seen so many boats in certain sections that it was clear didn't have licenses and have probably been moored for more then the alllowed time at the one spot. Don't know how or if BW deal with them, but wondered if you were facing an uphill battle with the ones who clearly don't want to play by the rules.
 
Uphill battle might be a good word for it, but then I suspect there is a lack of powers on this.

If someone just likes to use their boat for a trip up to Lechlade from Teddington once a year and other than that they only move around in a local area after hours on public power would it not make sense to just ignore BSS and licensing and buy a visitor license for the summer trip depending on how long you would like to take, I guess I'd go for the monthly V10?

its cheaper, avoids the agro and enforcement is apparently lacking therefore improving the overall appeal of this approach.

I know its 'a bit bad' and I wouldn't do it but it does look like an option.
 
[InlandNewbie]

The issue for both BW and EA is the cost of enforcement, even though EA have now criminalised the offence, it still costs a lot to take the offender to court. If it's a particular type of liveaboard then a fine is unlikely to deter them.


[OutInTheDinghy]

If the licence fee is paid and the declaration is made then EA is happy and it's a perfectly OK action. What happens in the future when EA starts asking for TP insurance for all boaters, then I'm not so sure.

No problem for somebody registered an other waterway, but what about somebody who keeps his boat at home.

That's why I made my previous point about folks being trapped at point of entry, perhaps I should have said "recorded".
 
We are having more and more patrols ( like the old days )

People who 'pop up' on a visitors licence and then overstay their welcome are being caught more and more often. The patrols don't need to see them moving the boat , the simple fact that it is on the river with an out of date visitors licence ( or no licence ) is enough . they will just keep going back ( not always by boat either ) until they catch the people on it and then serve them with an unregistered.

The hypothetical boat wouldn't be able to buy a visitors licence if they were a thames based boat .... no one would sell them one.

Its only really small ski boat type things that can be slipped and might turn up at an upriver lock needing a licence , if a large cruiser was to turn up at say Bell Weir and need a 31 day licence , alarm bells would ring.

Beleive it or not , lock staff do notice what goes on at the lock at night , and if an unusual boat is seen moving out of hours , a note is made and passed onto the office to make them aware of what may be taking place.

I'm sure there are loopholes in everything , but we are trying our best. I have to say that i don't really know the legal ins and outs , but the agency has been successful in the past in prosecuting people with NFA , so it must be possible.
 
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The thick plottens.

After a long struggle to get the the examiner to issue a safety cert, bad weather, ran out of forms and so forth, it transpires that SWMBO has "tidied away" the feckin' renewal forms. No, how do I get Craft Licensing to do a Monday to Friday turnaround for a new licence so I can take father in laws beer buddies for a long weekend?

Sitting on their doorstep ain't an option. Can a locky do a year's licence?
 
If you buy a short visitor license you should get it refunded when you later pay for a full license.

I did this a couple of years ago when I bought a new boat which was not BSS'd so once I got the BSS sorted out they reduced the cost of the yearly license by the amount I paid for the visitor license.

and you should be able to get a Visitors license (V10) at any lock.
 
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I did the same thing this year so i called them and paid by card over the phone . As they had details of the boat it was easy i suppose . But they didnt have my new saftey cert so i gave then the safety cert issue number and they where able to check on the system and issue the licence anyway . I still had to send the paper work in but i got my licence before they got the paper work .
 
Cuchilo said:
I did the same thing this year so i called them and paid by card over the phone . As they had details of the boat it was easy i suppose . But they didnt have my new saftey cert so i gave then the safety cert issue number and they where able to check on the system and issue the licence anyway . I still had to send the paper work in but i got my licence before they got the paper work .
Click to expand...

That'll do:-)

Now need to find my whites for the annual fender lifting:-)
 
Failing that , get an application in . You won't get the plate in time , but it will be 'in the system' as it were. Lock staff can check with craft reg if a boat is licenced ( or has applied and not received it yet ) , they will still have to issue a UR though.

So , at worst you will get an unregistered report , but it will cancel itself out when it hits Reading and they see that you have a licence .

Outinthedinghy said:
and you should be able to get a Visitors license (V10) at any lock.
Click to expand...

You would indeed get the cost of a visitors licence refunded , but since you are based on the Thames ( i see Jedi when i drive past ) , you aren't eligible to buy one anyway.
 
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[Teddington_Lock] "but since you are based on the Thames ( i see Jedi when i drive past ) , you aren't eligible to buy one anyway."

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I didn't realise that. So if I turned up at a lock keeper's office would he somehow be able to check if my boat was already 'based on the Thames' or would he have to personally know the boat and where it was kept in order to refuse to sell me a visitor license?
 
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