Techniques for handling main furling systems offshore in strong winds, especially going downwind in strong winds.

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klausmarco3

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Hi folks, I recently aquired a Sadler 29 with both fore- and mainsail furling stems. While this has made reefing undeniably a lot easier and safer, even singlehanded, generally speaking, I have
become quickly aware of the pitfalls of this technology.
While crossing the Bay of Biscay last Year in mid July, we were running downwind under Genoa only, as the Main would only be trouble, wind-shading the foresail. When it was time to furl the
Genoa, we had to go , of course, pretty close to the wind to be able to do that, in order to take the pressure off the system . With a 150% Genoa this can be hairy enough, in 8ft. waves, and
taught us a lesson about "preventative " early furling ! This with regards to foresail furling.
When it comes to mainsail furling, this is even more tricky - because of the much bigger friction the mainsail luff entails when it enters the mast slot, it is even more imperative to avoid any
pressure on the sail - so now we have the foresail thrashing about, once the boat is - almost ! - into the wind, plus the mainsail adding its own thrashing, while the boat is heading into the
oncoming seas, adding a bit more helter skelter...
Have I been dramatising this? Ok, 29 ft. is a small boat by todays standard, and most Yachts i have encountered were a fair bit bigger and therefore less volatile, but the basic difficulty of
furling the main when going downwind remains.
Apart from the aforementioned "preventative" furling, in good time, - are there any techniques that I should know, and am un-aware off, that make main furling in strong winds and going
downwind, easier, and safer ? Because within the above scenario, a jamming up of the mainsail is never far off the menu - and then what ?
rio
 
klausmarco3 said:
Hi folks, I recently aquired a Sadler 29 with both fore- and mainsail furling stems. While this has made reefing undeniably a lot easier and safer, even singlehanded, generally speaking, I have
become quickly aware of the pitfalls of this technology.
While crossing the Bay of Biscay last Year in mid July, we were running downwind under Genoa only, as the Main would only be trouble, wind-shading the foresail. When it was time to furl the
Genoa, we had to go , of course, pretty close to the wind to be able to do that, in order to take the pressure off the system . With a 150% Genoa this can be hairy enough, in 8ft. waves, and
taught us a lesson about "preventative " early furling ! This with regards to foresail furling.
When it comes to mainsail furling, this is even more tricky - because of the much bigger friction the mainsail luff entails when it enters the mast slot, it is even more imperative to avoid any
pressure on the sail - so now we have the foresail thrashing about, once the boat is - almost ! - into the wind, plus the mainsail adding its own thrashing, while the boat is heading into the
oncoming seas, adding a bit more helter skelter...
Have I been dramatising this? Ok, 29 ft. is a small boat by todays standard, and most Yachts i have encountered were a fair bit bigger and therefore less volatile, but the basic difficulty of
furling the main when going downwind remains.
Apart from the aforementioned "preventative" furling, in good time, - are there any techniques that I should know, and am un-aware off, that make main furling in strong winds and going
downwind, easier, and safer ? Because within the above scenario, a jamming up of the mainsail is never far off the menu - and then what ?
rio
Click to expand...
You dont have to go to wind when furling the genoa, just slack it off and furl a bit, slack some more and furl some more. Ours is 150% and it is easy peasy. The roller furler is as loose as can be, it isnt difficult to turn. Is there an issue with yours? We did Biscay then hopped down the spanish and Portuguese coast. Had some big seas and 25 - 30 kts in the afternoons. The procedure was, furl the genoa, then engine on, do a quick power turn to windward, me hold the nose to windward, mrs pull the main down to the next reef, single hand reefinf system.
 
Well, every silver lining requires a cloud.
The big lesson is the old maxim of 'if you think you should reef, then you should have done'

We have both main - in mast reefing and genoa - roller.

Genoa you can reef if you ease up a bit and wind on the winch.

The main you really do have to unload it.

With the CiC aboard we have taken to starting the engine and motoring up nearly to the wind. BUT NOT THROUGH IT, dear!
She helms whilst I reef.
Also means I have control over how much we reef without having to explain my magic points on the boom.

Frankly with more competent helms on board we can bring her closer into the wind and as the load is reduced we can reef away. My only thought would be choose your helm from the most reliable of the crew.
Or, start the engine.

Yes the Genoa does flap about and with 160% that is a lot of flapping,
Warn the nervous about what is going to happen.
Their job is to keep the sheets tensioned and not to let them fly about and get emotionally involved with stuff on the fore-deck - clip on points and the centre cleat are favourite. This also occupies them and diverts their anxiety.
Also that they are to manage the sheets as we come back into the wind and set the Genoa for the point of sail, or as instructed.
 
OK, I’ve got slab reefed main and a roller genoa, so not exactly the same setup....
To reef the main, I bring in the genoa and turn up into the wind until the the boat is almost on the point of stalling. Let the mainsheet out until the sail is no longer drawing and the leach is flapping. Then reef.
To reef the genoa, ease the sheet a little and gently winch the furling line in. Repeat as required. That’s done on whatever point of sail you’re on. You have to ensure that the furling line isn’t jammed as that’ll lead to broken lines and damaged stanchion blocks.
All steering is generally done by hand until the direction is right, then engage the autopilot to give 2 sets of hands to put the reef in.
 
With inmast furling down wind, after setting kicker and topping lift to the correct marks, I usually slacken the outhaul about 1 mtr., then reef in the main as much as I can, then another 1 mtr. of outhaul and reef until I have reefed sufficiently. Then a good tidy up and tension. Most important to use winch to wind in reefing line whilst keeping considerable tension on the dereefing line to ensure reef does not come undone. Care needs to be taken to make sure sail does not rub against shrouds. Sometimes necessary to luff up slightly without altering mainsheet to reduce wind pressure on sail near mast. Works for me on boat with smallish main and 140 Genoa.(usually furled to first reef before I attempt to reef the main).
 
We have slab reefing and full battens but never turn up wind if we are heading down wind to put a reef in. We haul the mainsheet in a little to keep most of the sail off the spreaders. Make sure the preventer is tight, and release the main halyard and haul down the main. If we are 30kts plus, hauling the main down can be hard so a line through the next reef and on to a winch at the mast helps get it down. In my opinion, safer than turning in to wind and waves. Going down wind the boat is flat and the deck is easy to stand on at the granny bars
 
geem said:
We have slab reefing and full battens but never turn up wind if we are heading down wind to put a reef in. We haul the mainsheet in a little to keep most of the sail off the spreaders. Make sure the preventer is tight, and release the main halyard and haul down the main. If we are 30kts plus, hauling the main down can be hard so a line through the next reef and on to a winch at the mast helps get it down. In my opinion, safer than turning in to wind and waves. Going down wind the boat is flat and the deck is easy to stand on at the granny bars
Click to expand...
Tom cunliffe recommended same in a YM article once.
 
We've done similar in Sadler 32 with a standard battened main. Really wanted to avoid turning head to wind and glad it worked. Good to hear it can work with larger fully battened sails.

Is it impossible to reef a mast furling main downwind?

Or is it just a question of doing it early enough?
 
My mainsail has short battens and cannot be reefed or lowered downwind so I have to heave-to to do it.

Eric Hiscock, Larry Pardey, Les Powles et al favoured mainsails without battens. I am currently carrying out an experiment and adapting an old mainsail by cutting off the roach so I won't need battens. I expect some loss of performance due to the reduced sail area but if it enables me to lower the sail downwind I will then order a new battenless sail with a longer foot to compensate for the area lost by having no roach.


The furling genoa is rolled up in stages, as others have described.
 
Poignard said:
My mainsail has short battens and cannot be reefed or lowered downwind so I have to heave-to to do it.

Eric Hiscock, Larry Pardey, Les Powles et al favoured mainsails without battens. I am currently carrying out an experiment and adapting an old mainsail by cutting off the roach so I won't need battens. I expect some loss of performance due to the reduced sail area but if it enables me to lower the sail downwind I will then order a new battenless sail with a longer foot to compensate for the area lost by having no roach.


The furling genoa is rolled up in stages, as others have described.
Click to expand...
When you say it can't, what happens when you try?
 
Poignard said:
My mainsail has short battens and cannot be reefed or lowered downwind so I have to heave-to to do it.

Eric Hiscock, Larry Pardey, Les Powles et al favoured mainsails without battens. I am currently carrying out an experiment and adapting an old mainsail by cutting off the roach so I won't need battens. I expect some loss of performance due to the reduced sail area but if it enables me to lower the sail downwind I will then order a new battenless sail with a longer foot to compensate for the area lost by having no roach.


The furling genoa is rolled up in stages, as others have described.
Click to expand...
Why cant you reef down wind? I have always reefed in the same way on every boat I have sailed with soft sails of fully battened.
 
When it was time to furl the
Genoa, we had to go , of course, pretty close to the wind to be able to do that, in order to take the pressure off the system .
Click to expand...

Hmm .. thats messy, the genoa then flogs hard and its still not easy to furl, and the thrashing genoa never furls well.

Much better to bear away until the main blankets the genoa, and just easily furl it while it sits in the wind shadow of the main.
 
I can only claim it worked for us, but if we centralise the boom and pull down the sail by the leach at the same time as by the luff, it keeps the battens clear.

It may take two people though.

Our shrouds are a single set, not raked aft at all, with a single spreader.
 
James_Calvert said:
I can only claim it worked for us, but if we centralise the boom and pull down the sail by the leach at the same time as by the luff, it keeps the battens clear.

It may take two people though.

Our shrouds are a single set, not raked aft at all, with a single spreader.
Click to expand...
Two people is one more than I have available. ;)
 
As others have said, furlong head sailed down wind shouldn’t be an issue. Let out and before they flog or collapse take some in, repeat.

The main however is a pain and we’d tend to bring out our stay sail and sheet it hard. We’d often have it out and sheeted right downwind anyway as it helpsreduce rolling. We’d go around and then heave yo whilst curling the main.

Better yet are twin headsails and leave the maiN furled away. Our twizzle rig of two identical high clew yankees is the ideal setup. Powerful, stable and easily furled. Excellent for a singlehander.
 
I favour keeping running as that way the apparent wind is least. I furl the genoa under the lee of the main, then reef the main while still on a run. I've done this several times in nearly 50 knots true wind. Two of us, one helming keeping the boat on a run and the other handling the sails. Not that much of a drama really.

But to put in reefs while on a run requires, imho, a fully battened main with roller cars. I think the friction might be too high with sliders. I also don't have swept back shrouds so merely sheeting in a bit keeps the sail off the spreaders and shrouds.
 
northcave said:
As others have said, furlong head sailed down wind shouldn’t be an issue. Let out and before they flog or collapse take some in, repeat.

The main however is a pain and we’d tend to bring out our stay sail and sheet it hard. We’d often have it out and sheeted right downwind anyway as it helpsreduce rolling. We’d go around and then heave yo whilst curling the main.

Better yet are twin headsails and leave the maiN furled away. Our twizzle rig of two identical high clew yankees is the ideal setup. Powerful, stable and easily furled. Excellent for a singlehander.
Click to expand...
Hello, thread drift but do you mean a proper twizzle rig as in two poles sharing a floating joint in the foretriangle? I am interested in how to build the joint. Thanks
 
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