Teak decks - good or bad? Lifespan?

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So how about all those Oysters and Swans in the med/carib. They seem to do fine.

[/ QUOTE ] Mine was a 1988 Oyster 406. A 12mm deck was laid on an epoxy bed, with 1,440 screws holding it down to the balsa core deck. The boat was exported to Australia, sailed back to the Med where it languished in the sun for a year. I bought it around 1994, 8 years old, with the caulking bginning to crack and some screw heads beginning to show. Parts of the deck were down to 9mm. It had been scrubbed regularly

1995 I recaulked and re-screwed the deck (yard quote S Coast UK, £8,000; cost to me about £2,000 and 6 man weeks of my time).

In 8 years sailing, living aboard 7 months a year, 4 years were spent in the Med. The decks did become hot, but never to the level that troubled me. The heat was not transmitted below (wood is a good insulator, after all). It was a superb non-slip surface. I sold the boat four years ago.

The new owner has just re-decked her in 15mm glued teak - so the original lasted 20 Years with one interim re-furbishment. When replaced there was no sign of leakage through to the balsa core GRP deck. The new deck cost £9,000 in Marmaris (UK quote "at least £24,000").

That's how one Oyster coped.
 
Perhaps a bit hasty. Offer them £40k off and use it until the deck starts to give problems and strip it all off and epoxy/glass cloth followed by a paint system. If the rest of the boat is OK only walk away if the vendor insists the deck adds value - and of course he still probably remembers the £8-10K the recaulking cost so he may be miffed a bit!
 
I may be in the minority but I LOVE my teak decks! Mine are 22 years old and have been refinished once - originally 12mm. If you look after them properly (unlike GRP which can be largely ignored) they last very well. I do have to replug on occasions and yes, eventually they will have to be redone but are great at sea (non-slip) and look far better IMHO!
 
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We're boathunting at the moment.

The current front runner ticks all the right boxes, but... it's got a teak deck.
It's a 1982 boat - deck recaulked in 2004. Teak is said to be 12mm thick and 'in good order'.

Assuming this is true - how long before I should start worrying about replacement?

Anyone any experience of replacing a teak deck?
Cost?
Alternatives?

Are we crazy to even consider a boat with a teak deck?

[/ QUOTE ]Like most things, the subject has brought out those who have had bad experiences and they are shouting loudest.

To try and give a more balanced answer, I think that the response you should have depends on a number of factors.

Some teak decks are glued down. I have even seen glued down decks with plugs in them to make them 'look traditional'. If the teak is in good condition and there aren't any leaks, I wouldn't walk away from the boat. I think teak decks look very nice.

A lot of people abuse their teak and then wonder why they have problems.

There ARE advantages to teak and they are not all aesthetic. As has already been meantioned teak is inherently none slip. In the wet or the dry the none slip qualities are excellent. I don't find teak particularly hot under foot in the tropical sun. (Why are you bare footed anyway - one of my pet hates on a boat!) Sunbathing on teak does produce problems with staining through suncream getting into the wood.

On the subject of maintenance, we do use chemicals on our teak cockpit and trim. Its called SEMCO and the only scrubbing we do is with a green pan scourer and the chemicals and lots of water. The end result is brilliant and I am grateful to Robih of these forums to introducing me to the stuff. Remember to NEVER scrub with a brush and NEVER pressure wash teak and it should last for many many years.
 
John,

I completely understand your point of view. Until recently it was my point of view too. Recent experience made me reconsider.

As OP's boat seems to be a Kalik too, I can only go by what I found.

To illustrate - picture below - on the left Guapa, on the right a boat that had a cork deck laid last year. When I posted this pictures people posted comments to the effect that there was nothing wrong with my deck, it looked nicer, etc... Little did they (and I) know.

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Once we started digging however - Hammer House of Horror.
The deck was not balsa core as I had been told, but GRP+ply+teak.

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Above - first place we dug - by the shrouds where I knew there was some water ingress. Teak OK, ply underneath -> compost.
The GRP underneath just about survived intact. Another couple of years, and we'd had osmosis of the deck. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

In other places, the ply underneath appeared more or less fine.

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Moisture readings were still very high though, it turned out all the ply had started to rot from underneath.
Everything had to go. We're left with a 9mm GRP deck.
It's now got that Bavaria kind of feel - it adds a certain spring to your step.

To maintain rigidity, we now have to put a balsa frame on it; laminate that in and then glue the cork in place.

A teak decks look nice, just make sure you're not the one left holding the baby when it needs to be replaced.
When we bought Guapa I knocked 20% off the asking price just because of the deck. It should have been more, much more.

If I ever buy another boat, it won't have a teak deck. I couldn't go through this twice. No-one should have to go through this - not even once.
 
We love teak decks! We repay about one a year. Helps me repay my mortgage regulary!
My own boat has 30mm of ply, epoxy sheathed. Job done.
In the trade laid decks are regarded as 'work creation schemes'......
 
I think I would have my opinions changed if I had to go through that! You have my sincere sympathies. I remember you being so excited and please when you bought the current Guapa.

Perhaps I should have added to my previous post - get a very good surveyor to look at it and answer specific questions about the potential teak deck in writing.

I admit that when we were looking last we rejected a couple of boats with very dodgy looking teak decks. One was a Swan!
 
As the owner of an 18 year old Hallberg Rassy, I'd say that teak decks are great if they're properly laid (ie no ply underlay) and if they're properly cared for from new. I'd have no hesitation buying a new boat with teak decks, knowing what I now know about looking after them. But I'd be very wary about buying a used boat with teak decks - especially of the age you're looking at. With gentle care, even a fairly ordinary teak deck might withstand 30 years or so of use. Unfortunately, most owners don't know how to look after them gently, and they scrub them, or even pressure-wash them. My boat had a previous owner for its first 6 years, and he scrubbed it. I renovated it a few years ago, with gentle sanding to remove most of the ridging on the teak, but it's not going to look good for many more years.
 
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I'd say that teak decks are great if they're properly laid (ie no ply underlay) and if they're properly cared for from new.

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No ply underneath - 80's boat?
It'll have a balsa core deck.
Teak screwed down? Risk of water ingress in the balsa core and all that entails.
In that case you're no better off than you are with a ply underlay.

When it comes to a teak deck - if it's screwed, so are you. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
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I remember you being so excited and please when you bought the current Guapa.

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I'm still excited about the boat - she's a dream to sail. Sea kindly, a go anywhere boat with all the comfort of home.
If it hadn't been for the deck... she would have been perfect.
In 7 months pay time, she'll be better than perfect.
But at the moment? The boat used to be what kept me sane, right now she's more likely to send me around the bend.

Caught in a Mastermind situation: I've started, so I'll finish.
 
I have never had teak decks but certainly appreciate that they look good on a boat and I enjoy seeing them.

For me, the bigger a GRP boat gets the more it needs softening somehow due to the wide expanse of material. Teak decks do a great job in offsetting this but probably do not make practical sense.

I know of a super yacht producer, due to sheer expense of the material, have gone down in thickness from 12mm to 9mm in recent years.

I would be very interested to hear from Guapa about cork as a substitute material i.e. longevity, compared cost etc
 
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No ply underneath - 80's boat?
It'll have a balsa core deck.
Teak screwed down? Risk of water ingress in the balsa core and all that entails.
In that case you're no better off than you are with a ply underlay.

When it comes to a teak deck - if it's screwed, so are you. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]I'm afraid you're quite wrong about that. Hallberg Rassy didn't use balsa, they used divinycell foam.
 
There is a HR near us which just had the decks repaired with all screws replaced by lower profile ones and replugged followed by recaulking and overall sanding down, it took 3 specialists 6 weeks and I think in the region of £20,000. Prior to the repair there was water ingress through the thousands of screws that was finding it's way not just into the deck filling but via genoa track bolts and other fastenings to down below.

We also have a very beautiful and very expensive new Swedish deck saloon offering nearby (R something by name?) and it's teak decks are screwed down too judging by the plugs that are clearly visible. Will they never learn?

Prior to buying our current boat we were very interested in Westerly Oceanlords. One we looked at had just had the teak decks (actually a teak/ply laminate) replaced with proper solid teak, very nice but the stated cost was £25,000!!! Admittedly the £25,000 included some other work that was done simply because so much dismantling had to be done on deck and below so things like stanchions and lifelines were replaced and new cabin linings belowdecks. We saw another Oceanlord that the broker described as 'needing just a little TLC on the teak decks' and he wondered why we laughed hysterically as we ran for the car!

We have teak in our cockpit on the seats and floor but it is stuck down and there are no screws. I'm happy enough with that small bit of decoration and more than happy with the moulded in non-slip and no leaks.
 
As I understand it the latest method on some new boats is to make the decks in panels, complete with caulking and then vacuum bag them onto the GRP substrate. However they are held together underneath with stainless steel staples. Should be interesting when they wear down!
 
An interview with the president of C&C Yachts: George Cuthbertson by John Turnbull 1978.

"The market has ben brought up to believe that teak, particularly on interior surfaces, means tradition. Nothing is further from the truth.

Everybody talks about a teak deck as the ultimate. Before the war a teak deck was unheard of except on a sampan. A builder like Herreshoff or Nevins would never use a teak deck - It's far too heavy for decking. They'd use a long -leaf yellow pine or another wood native to North America, not an enormously heavy lumber that comes all the way from the Orient. This business about teak is not true but the public has been told it's true.

Why? Teak, when it was first used about 20 years ago, had the virtue of sparing the builder the work of finishing it. He could just leave it there or smear on a coat of grease and call it a hand-rubbed finish. Hand-rubbed finish nonsense. It was an excuse to save labor. At the time, teak was worth about $1000 or $1300 per thousand board-feet. Today, it's around $4500 and the industry is trapped. Not only is there the expense but there's the supply problem as well.

I'm not proposing that we end the use of teak altogether, but that we use less and put a better finish on what we use. Meanwhile, we'll continue to consider alternative materials. People would be horrified, after all, if Mercedes-Benz introduced a car with an all-teak interior, but it's no less ridiculous."
 
Oh dear. A reply bordering on arrogance. Are the only replies that are 'balanced' those that accord with your own views? People have willingly shared their own experiences, have done so objectively and I haven't noticed anyone 'shouting' - loudly or otherwise. Perhaps its that the owners of teak decks feel obliged rebut any adverse criticism and to leap to their defence in an effort to protect the resale value of their boats?

To the OP, I would say I'm with the majority on this. When my boat got to 15 years old, I had the deck (12mmm screwed to steel) surveyed. The verdict was that major work, probably replacement, would be required in 2-3 years, at a cost of upwards of £25k on a 45 footer. Despite the plus points for a teak deck (and I accept there are some) they certainly weren't worth that to me so I sold the boat, at a slight profit on the purchase price after 5 years use, and bought a 'wood-free' one instead. I wouldn't entertain another teak deck but you pays yer money and.....
 
I have teak decks on my boat, now 36 years old. Granted they were much thicker than newer ones to start with. I have lifted several planks to repair leaks and found them to be in good condition so they have been refitted.

Teak is a matter of choice, however for me I prefer the look and will continue to do any maintenance to keep them. If you are the type that thinks there is such a thing as a maintenance free boat you are very much mistaken teak however is just another maintenance job for the winter.

I suppose that I'm saying that if you dont look after them they are a pain, if you do then they will last years. Using chemicals is the quick route to replacement!

I wonder how many of the nar do's have actually had a teak deck!

One other point...... of all the decks I have stood on only teak provides the grip that is required in a sea way so they are definately not just for looks, or you can have, if you prefere, the blue paint job on deck!

Tom
 
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