Teak decking on flybridge in med

[BartW]

Re. Answer to the OP;

We have teak on the FB, and I would alway’s want that.
For me its part of the “ big ship” feel, especially on our semi wooden boat (superstructure is wood)
A GRP boat without teak on the FB is just a plastic tub (imho) ;-)
Yes ours gets fairly hot in summer months, and for that I sometimes wear slippers, or I stand or walk on parts where is shadow.

I’m a big fan of the straw brown wood color.
This year I did the two part cleaning myself at the start of the season (and a refresh in august)
For me this is therapy, and I do that instead of jogging or whatever other body training
I also love spraying with water in sunny hot weather


Regarding MapisM’s Akir pic, (fantastic ship by the way!)

I don’t mind the straight planks as I have similar on our Canados and I’m used to that ;-)
our boat has few small utilitarian details anyway, this is one of them.
20mm thick is huge, and the teak looks very good on the pic, for sure if it is 30yo
I can believe that this feels very solid.

I’don’t really like these railing stanchion fixings, I prefer mine, despite the more complex maintenance, etc…
Yes I have to admid that I sometimes prefer form over function
And I also don’t understand nor like the complex anker chain rail.
a pocket anker would be more appropriate


Can I asc a question here ?
Next year we plan to replace the teak on Blue Angel,
Can someone tell me what thickness is normal / advised today,
I hope that the new teak will last again at least 20y  

We would like to place a GRP or epoxy layer on the plywood deck, before we glue the new teak on top,
The main reason for replacing the teak, is to make the old ply deck (25yo) completely leak free.
Our old teak is approx. 5…7mm thickness left (originally 12mm),
the caulking grooves have been re-routed, and have been recaulked,
but every now and then, new leaks through the deck show up, and have to be repaired. (replace caulking)

Oh yes, we will have the teak done by a professional co, (tbc) and it will most likely be ‘curved” planks.
It we do that kind of investment, I want to have it top notch, and to the latest standard,
but so far still black color caulking

 

[jfm]

You can say that again. And you should see the rest... :encouragement:

You can say it as many times as you like but a round tube placed on a flat surface, with a tangential interface, is just poor lazy design. You wont find it on a Feadship or a Lurssen. Or a Ferretti or a FairPrinSeek. Even if the brackets were beautiful it wouldn't be nice, but those brackets look like they were made by 14 year olds in their first high school metalwork lesson. It is just awful and I don't care whether it is an Akhir or a Bavaria. And that "thing" that the anchor rests on or that the chain runs over takes fugliness and afterthoughts to a whole new level. I realise CdiP built many awesome boats and "the rest" of this boat is probably awesome but that's no reason to praise this foredeck, at least in my book.

 

[Whitelighter]

A GRP boat without teak on the FB is just a plastic tub

Hey...........

 

[jfm]

Re. Answer to the OP;

We have teak on the FB, and I would alway’s want that.
For me its part of the “ big ship” feel, especially on our semi wooden boat (superstructure is wood)
A GRP boat without teak on the FB is just a plastic tub (imho) ;-)
Yes ours gets fairly hot in summer months, and for that I sometimes wear slippers, or I stand or walk on parts where is shadow.

I’m a big fan of the straw brown wood color.
This year I did the two part cleaning myself at the start of the season (and a refresh in august)
For me this is therapy, and I do that instead of jogging or whatever other body training
I also love spraying with water in sunny hot weather


Regarding MapisM’s Akir pic, (fantastic ship by the way!)

I don’t mind the straight planks as I have similar on our Canados and I’m used to that ;-)
our boat has few small utilitarian details anyway, this is one of them.
20mm thick is huge, and the teak looks very good on the pic, for sure if it is 30yo
I can believe that this feels very solid.

I’don’t really like these railing stanchion fixings, I prefer mine, despite the more complex maintenance, etc…
Yes I have to admid that I sometimes prefer form over function
And I also don’t understand nor like the complex anker chain rail.
a pocket anker would be more appropriate


Can I asc a question here ?
Next year we plan to replace the teak on Blue Angel,
Can someone tell me what thickness is normal / advised today,
I hope that the new teak will last again at least 20y  

We would like to place a GRP or epoxy layer on the plywood deck, before we glue the new teak on top,
The main reason for replacing the teak, is to make the old ply deck (25yo) completely leak free.
Our old teak is approx. 5…7mm thickness left (originally 12mm),
the caulking grooves have been re-routed, and have been recaulked,
but every now and then, new leaks through the deck show up, and have to be repaired. (replace caulking)

Oh yes, we will have the teak done by a professional co, (tbc) and it will most likely be ‘curved” planks.
It we do that kind of investment, I want to have it top notch, and to the latest standard,
but so far still black color caulking

. BartW, 6mm is normal on production boats like mine, 9mm is common where the builders choose to go a bit higher end (Aquastar quote 9mm on their bigger boats, for example) and 12mm is high end (used recently and for a long time by Overmarine and Leopard on 80-ish footers just as two examples). You see more, up to 18mm on superyachts where weight doesn't matter and the bend radii for curved planks are MUCH bigger.

It is common and perfectly ok for the caulked seam to not be full depth. Makes for a much better looking product, easier to make. When they are made in sheets by a good maker, the planks are steamed and they put a thin GRP layer on the bottom side of the panel, which is a nice touch. You can of course apply a GRP your under deck to fix leaks, then glue the panels down, GRP to GRP. Weights are ok if vac bags are too much trouble. It is common for the panels to be glued with epoxy, rather than bedded onto 2mm of sikaflex type glue and it is MUCH easier to do it in epoxy. I can find you the exact product if I ask the right person (mine are done that way).

Caulking product matters and as said before I suggest look at TDS 440

If i were doing your boat I'd do 6mm or 9mm (I don't know the cost difference and whether it is big enough to matter). It will last many years with good care, even though it wont be Burma teak (Equador more likely, but that is good stuff). Should last well over 10 years. Caulking is generally rated for 10 years by the makers, in sun, but it isn't too big a deal to re-caulk.

White caulk is obviously a question of personal taste!

 

[MapisM]

A GRP boat without teak on the FB is just a plastic tub (imho)

Naah, a GRP boat is just a plastic tub (aka "frozen snot") regardless.
Here, just to avoid Jez (and many others) the risk of any inferiority complex!
And mind, as you know I'm saying this as someone who is looking at plastic tubs...

 

[MapisM]

You can say it as many times as you like...

Oi, I already said that it was only an example - in fact, I also came back on topic with the other GRP deck covered with teak.
It seems to me that you are the one reiterating your dislike of that Akhir for no reason...

 

[MapisM]

You can of course apply a GRP your under deck to fix leaks

Yes he can, but I'm not sure I would, in BartW boots.
BA deck is wooden built, and encapsulating timber on a boat is something that each and every wooden boat builder I spoke with strongly discouraged. In a timber deck, it's the caulking that has to be perfect and waterproof, rather than the underneath ply layer.
But this is yet again completely o/t in this thread.
What I would definitely suggest B is to discuss his options with someone with a proper experience in this field, before starting such a complex (and expensive!) job.

PS: B, fwiw I fully agree with J on TDS440 for caulking - in a sense, I would use this even as a test of the yard which you are thinking to use for the job: if they don't know (or even dismiss) this material, I'd rather look elsewhere.

 

[BartW]

Naah, a GRP boat is just a plastic tub (aka "frozen snot") regardless.
Here, just to avoid Jez (and many others) the risk of any inferiority complex!
And mind, as you know I'm saying this as someone who is looking at plastic tubs...

MapisM I'm intrigued, that YOU are looking for a frozen snot boat,
and the rumour goes that it might be a planing boat,
what is left of your "see the light" statement ;-)

 

[BartW]

Yes he can, but I'm not sure I would, in BartW boots.
BA deck is wooden built, and encapsulating timber on a boat is something that each and every wooden boat builder I spoke with strongly discouraged. In a timber deck, it's the caulking that has to be perfect and waterproof, rather than the underneath ply layer.
But this is yet again completely o/t in this thread.
What I would definitely suggest B is to discuss his options with someone with a proper experience in this field, before starting such a complex (and expensive!) job.

PS: B, fwiw I fully agree with J on TDS440 for caulking - in a sense, I would use this even as a test of the yard which you are thinking to use for the job: if they don't know (or even dismiss) this material, I'd rather look elsewhere.

regarding the grp layer under the teak, we have discussed this before, but I think that as long there is some ventilation in the ceilings below the deck, there is no issue with that. (will asc more specialised advice ofcause)

remember the moisture problem in our bulwarks,; since we made air openings in the lower end of the walls (as your sugestion remember), actually all the moisture problems are gone,
well not really, some of the ply panels inside that have been absorbing moisture for 25years, have now (while dry-ing) become more or less pulverised ! (the big rebuild job planned in winter 2017-2018, including new teak)
sorry to OP for TD, discussion tbc in another threat

 

[BartW]

. BartW, 6mm is normal on production boats like mine, 9mm is common where the builders choose to go a bit higher end (Aquastar quote 9mm on their bigger boats, for example) and 12mm is high end (used recently and for a long time by Overmarine and Leopard on 80-ish footers just as two examples). You see more, up to 18mm on superyachts where weight doesn't matter and the bend radii for curved planks are MUCH bigger.

It is common and perfectly ok for the caulked seam to not be full depth. Makes for a much better looking product, easier to make. When they are made in sheets by a good maker, the planks are steamed and they put a thin GRP layer on the bottom side of the panel, which is a nice touch. You can of course apply a GRP your under deck to fix leaks, then glue the panels down, GRP to GRP. Weights are ok if vac bags are too much trouble. It is common for the panels to be glued with epoxy, rather than bedded onto 2mm of sikaflex type glue and it is MUCH easier to do it in epoxy. I can find you the exact product if I ask the right person (mine are done that way).

Caulking product matters and as said before I suggest look at TDS 440

If i were doing your boat I'd do 6mm or 9mm (I don't know the cost difference and whether it is big enough to matter). It will last many years with good care, even though it wont be Burma teak (Equador more likely, but that is good stuff). Should last well over 10 years. Caulking is generally rated for 10 years by the makers, in sun, but it isn't too big a deal to re-caulk.

White caulk is obviously a question of personal taste!

thanks J, all very clear and usefull advice.
have been browsing some teak makers websites (Watsons fe)
will make a new threat about this at that time

somebody know a good or respected teak maker in Italy ?

 

[jfm]

Wattsons are good. The use equador teak now. They put a very thin layer of GRP on the back of their panels, which I like. They made my decks and my tables etc.

They are all set up with CNC gear. The hard part on a boat as big as yours is making the templates. You can make 3mm plywood templates of course, but Wattsons have a CNC template - they visit the boat with a computer gadget and trace a tool around the edge of your deck. It has accelerometers, like an X-Box hand held thing. This creates the 2D shape on their computer in literally 30 minutes, and they make the deck panels from this. Pretty clever. I don't know the cost, compared with making plywood templates and transporting them.

The three big deck firms in UK are Wattsons, Moodys, Teakdecking near Plymouth. KJHowells are smaller. Wattsons is generally regarded as the premium supplier. Obviously if you can find the same in Italy (Azimut's supplier?) that will be easier for you.

As regards the aesthetics of curved planks, it is personal choice of course, but I do not think the ones in MapisM's 2nd picture above look great (post #59). Those planks are curved "parallel" to the outer edge of the deck, and the deck maker has worked inwards from that starting position. That's ok with a very sharp bow, but with a rounded bow like that one, they have got (IMHO) too much curvature. An alternative is to curve the planks but with less curvature than the outer edge of the deck - see my foredeck below. Lots to think about!

 

[MapisM]

MapisM I'm intrigued, that YOU are looking for a frozen snot boat,
and the rumour goes that it might be a planing boat,
what is left of your "see the light" statement ;-)

Haha, good point.
Actually, that statement of mine was never referred to plastic vs. wood, just to D vs. P cruising.
And indeed I'd love to stick to a D boat like a Nordie, or even better one of those built in a PNW yard rather than in the People's Republic, like Delta or Northern Marine.
Trouble is, while the price tag of these things is already ridiculous when new, it's beyond a joke on the second hand market.
For the price of a N57 or a D58 (assuming to find one), you could easily buy a stunning SL82.
And I have zero interest in crossing oceans by boat anyway, life's way too short.
...hence the compromise of P hull frozen snots!
IF and WHEN I will actually switch, mind. It's not like I absolutely must...!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Hey...........

Agreed. A GRP boat without teak on the FB may be just a plastic tub but it weighs less, costs less, takes far less maintenance, doesn't need replacing every 10yrs, doesn't burn your feet and doesnt give the owner a seizure every time his kid drops a crisp on it. Whats not to like? Sensible builders like Ferretti never put teak on their flybridges unless their buyers really beg for it

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Trouble is, while the price tag of these things is already ridiculous when new, it's beyond a joke on the second hand market.

Certainly way beyond a joke for we impoverished Brits at $1.20/£ Btw you never see teak anywhere on a Nordie

 

[MapisM]

regarding the grp layer under the teak, we have discussed this before, but I think that as long there is some ventilation in the ceilings below the deck, there is no issue with that.

I'm afraid it's not so simple, B.
Far from pretending to be an expert on this subject, but afaik also the encapsulation with resins only of the top side of a wooden deck can be a recipe for a disaster.
My understanding is that no matter how perfectly the resin is glued above ply panels, what you eventually get are two materials with different properties, thermal dilatation, etc.
In the not so long term, this can lead to partial detachments of the resin from the wood panels, and any surface detached (mind, fraction of millimeters is enough!) becomes a trap for condensation, progressively getting worse once it starts, and eventually rotting the wooden parts - without any visible evidence of it, neither from above nor from inside!
Sorry to sound as a bit of scaremonger, but I'm just reporting what I've been told (by folks with a LOT of first hand experience, anyway).

 

[jfm]

Btw you never see teak anywhere on a Nordie

Sure you do, on the high end ones

 

[Bouba]

Sure you do, on the high end ones

Those photos are just boat porn

 

[Nick_H]

Agreed. A GRP boat without teak on the FB may be just a plastic tub but it weighs less, costs less, takes far less maintenance, doesn't need replacing every 10yrs, doesn't burn your feet and doesnt give the owner a seizure every time his kid drops a crisp on it.

If you don't put carpet in the cabins then it weighs less, costs less, takes far less maintenance, doesn't need replacing every ten years, and doesn't give the owner a seizure every time his kid drops Ribena on it. The carpet looks and feels nice though

 

[MapisM]

Those photos are just boat porn

Well yeah, I surely wouldn't mind getting one from Santa as a Xmas present.

But if you like this type of boat porn, rather than attaching other o/t pics, I'd suggest you to google for Moka, the very first SL explorer yacht: 20' longer than Aurora, which Nordhavn had all sort of troubles to launch after a 5+ years painful build in their Chinese factory, and already up there with all the best vessels of this kind - I mean the proper ones, made in steel+alu superstructure: it really takes a Nordies fan, to even think of buying a plastic 120' explorer yacht... :ambivalence:
...it's no coincidence that SL already sold 4 of their magnificent vessels even before Moka was launched.
Well done, folks! :encouragement:

 

[MapisM]

The carpet looks and feels nice though

Yup, and they don't burn your feet either...
Hang on, why not put them also on the f/b!?