targa 52 or phantom 50

[dannyxx]

sorry if ive posted this twice new to this great forum
has anyone seen the targa 52 with new retractable roof and the phantom 50 at the sibs .any pros and cons for either


thanks
danny

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[tcm]

hi dannyxx

These are quite different boats, no? One sports cruiser, tother fbridge. I wd say that flines later fbridges are these days more up to the mark than their sports cruisers. The t52 ain't a big seller like the T48 was which they idiotically dropped just as they they started to make a ton of loot from them but just before they had managed to make one that had zero faults. Have a look at a late-model princess V58 before buying either.

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[Benny1]

Agree with TCM,

t52 is not a pretty boat, especially when viewed from ahead or astern. It looks pretty good in profile though, however I have not seen one with a hardtop on it. If it's like the t62 hardtop it will 'orrible. Lots of plastic, and little fresh air even with the hardtop open, if you want to drive around inside all the time you should by a flybridge and do it with lots more space for bedrooms etc below.

Also, unless they ahve changed it, the master cabin is very much up some steps, down some steps athen up some steps again, if you get me.

phantom 50 looks good from most angles and much better layouy with the new galley. Really all depends on that you are looking to use the boat for and where u are looking to use it.

Also agree with tcm that you should look at princess v58 (esp with blue hull) or maybe even sunseeker portofino 53 - not as much practical space as the fairline, but masses better looking and much more snazzy, especially down below!

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[DERF]

Dan ,

I've recently purcased a Targa 52 after looking closely at the V58, V50,V46/48 Portofino 53, cranchi 50 etc.... in other words most of the current crop of open boats in the 48 - 58' bracket.

The V58 is a lovely boat with a great hard top, but it is considerably bigger and more expensive, the cheapest one I found had the small D12 615's @ 590k.

TCM hates the T52, but I disagree. Like all open boats it is a compromise. I see no point in buying a fully enclosed sports boat.. might as well have a flybridge.

The hard top on the new T52 and the S'seeker is a nonsense. They offer a small sunroof and if you are over 6' you cannot stand at the wheel without your shoulders touching the mullions! roof line is that low to keep the profile sleek. Same for the V46/48

The T52 is not without its faults, but I believe it offers the best option of cockpit with 3 cabins 2 heads for a 50' boat that is open.

Big D12's are superb and push it along at 35 knts (if you can stomach the fuel consumption).

It depends what you want.. the Ph 50 and T52 are very different boats and offer totally different "lifestyles".

I am very happy with my choice as are a number of other owners ( I know a chap who has just ordered his 3rd T52) although many... especiallt TCM may not agree.



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[jfm]

Derf I agree the D12s are excellent. They run very quietly, which is crucial imho. Fuel burn is high in absolute terms, but for the bhp they are very efficient. We get about .7mpg at 23knot cruise on the 715evc D12s

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[Benny1]

DERF,

Going slightly off topic, did youused to havea Targe 40? If so what do you find are the main advantages of the t52 (or similar sized boat from other manufactuers) over the t40.

Just curious as we have a t40 and the way forward is one of 3 paths:-

1) Upgrade to t52 type boat for the UK (that we will use as a big dayboat and occasional cruiser)

2) Go mega and but a nice big flybridge in the med (and stay on board) together with something small, fun and nippy in the UK.

3) Do nothing and keep the t 40 + the money in the bank!

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[DERF]

Benny,

I did indeed have a T40 and went through exactly the same pre-purchase analysis.
You know my decision.

The T40 was a lovely boat, however the two cannot be compared. The T52 fully laden displaces 20 tons whereas the T40 was about 9. As a result the sea keeping is completely different. Was caught out out in a force 6 in Mallorca and didn't feel a thing in the 52 and was easily able to maintain 24knts with complete comfort. I know from previous experience I would have been bashed about in the 40 had I tried to do the same.

Tthe 12 feet increase in volume space make a huge difference, and I now feel that I can spend a week at a time on the boat and not feel too cramped.

The 52 has shafts and mine has cupped props and the drive from the D12's is enormous! 7knts at tickover took a bit of getting used to.

I bought a Mark 1 boat having looked at mark II and Mark III. The Mk 1 has a much higher specification. Originally F'line produced the Mark 1 and priced it close to the V58. as they did not sell well they downgraded the spec considerably and the price... and have now pushed the price back up again for the mark IV

I love it and I thnk I will stick with that particular model. In quality of fit and finish I still think F'line have the best product, albeit not the cheapest.

What should you do..... Buy one you'll love it.. but get the D12 (715hp). It'll really make you grin!

Keep me up to date with your decision.

Best of Luck

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[DERF]

Jfm,

Do you have the volvo evc management displays?

Laurence

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[jfm]

No, not got round to it. Haven't had time. I have checked em out, they plug into the HCU junction boxes under the helm and accept a NMEA 183 feed (for SOG) so you get mpg. Piece of cake to fit. About 1300 each however. And AFAIK you need 2, one to plug into each HCU. I dont htink you can get one and have it rewad both engine displays. My prob is I need 4 really, because wouldn't want them just at lower helm - we use upper helm mostly. Maybe we should just h ave them on upper helm. Job for next year.

Are your motors evc or edc. If evc, have you had a bunch of software probs? Did you get the new software, around May this year? Are your sump oil level (not pressure) sensors working or have volvo disocnnected them till they can sort out the software?

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[Benny1]

Thanks for that reply, v detailed and informative.

Did you keep both boats in Mallorca?

Our t40 is in N wales where we have a second home also but I think anything bigger there is a bit daft - one of the main reaons is that pretty much all the ports around us (apart from our home one of Pwllheli) are v tidal. With outdrives you can safely take some chances and go places you darent with shafts.

It was interesting to see that you can comfortably stay on board for a week in the med - I suppose it helps that with the climate the whole cockpit effectively becomes usable 24 hours a day.

I also take on board the weight issue. There is a t52 a few berths from us and the way she goes through the water is indeed very different.

What spec did they change/remove to get the price down then? Be interested to know.

Finally. The quality of all the main 3 british marques is pretty similar. They all look great, and the enginerring standards are high, but as far as the cabins go, once you dig behind the scenes they are all just cheap wood and velcro!



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[DERF]

Boat is an early 2003 so has the EDC. You are spot on have to have one display per unit. I've just bought them and are being fitted this week. Will let you know if they are useful or just another set of numbers to worry/sweat over.

I have heard of the problems associated with the EVC's. Seems they were released well before trials were completed... either that or us poor end users are expected to do the field trials for them.. poor show IMO.

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[DERF]

No The 40 was in the UK, and the 52 is in Mallorca. not sure if Ill bring it back to the UK or leave it there.

Your right , in the Med the whole boat becomes useable, albeit until the sun and heat makes the cockpit unbearbale... then your got the aircon down below, that is very spacious.

From my research and by talking to F'line and owners 52's changes as follows:
The arrangemet down below is completely different in Mk1 to all subsequent Mks
finish feels more luxurious
more wood used in place of fabric
Curved wooden doors MkII are straight)
Stainless steel down below (like the T40)
Curved fridge freezer doors
Glass fittings in heads with less plastic
Galley seperated from Saloon by curved seat arrangement
opposing chairs and settee in saloon (u shaped in MkII)
electric twin helm seats
Bigger sturdier cockpit table
A lot of the current extras list was included as standard.
Wooden capings (tacky IMHO) in cockpit and on foredeck

The list is not exhaustive but gives some idea.

hope this this helps


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[jfm]

715 evc

Ah you will be ok, the software prob was evc only. There was a big software re-release a week after our delivery. So on near maiden voyage I x-channel in F5-6 to Jersey on the old software. Mid channel I got warning lights and hooters like a christmas tree, like "water in fuel", "low oil", then finally "you are bout to run out of fuel". No-one had warned me, the boat was PDIed and signed off, so I shat myself, but it was all ok in the end. AFAIK about 30 or 40 boats were handed over to cusotmers in this condition, basically the entire first batch of 715evc. We should all ask for counselling

After the new software the only glitch seems to be the sump oil level sensors, so volvo have disconnected them and left the wires dangling by the sumps. I have no idea when they will fixit....

Other than this, they are in fact superb motors imho. Bags of power (34 knots on our boat) and incredibly quiet . People on our boat cannot believe how quiet the flybridge is at 20knots, certianly the quietest mobo I have ever been on.

Please report back on the fuel displays when you have tried them. The edc ones are basically same functionality as evc, so ours will be same as yours if we get them. Thanks

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[red_diva]

Well, I am new, but I am looking forward to reading more. Great informative site, although I am a Yachtie at heart, maybe I will learn something new !!!
Motor boats I am still to "get", maybe this site will help....maybe not !!!
So far the only appeal for something with a powerful engine on the water is to tie a rope to the stern and water ski!!

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[Observer]

Re: 715 evc

As you know, we have EDC displays on Dream Dancer (very handy but not sure I would pay 1300 squids each for them and one is not working properly anyway). Surely if you did get two, it would be possible to rig simple repeater display or something at other helm station? Is it not NMEA or sumfink?

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[jfm]

Re: 715 evc

Nah it's not NMEA. That has specific sentences only for nav items like SOG, Lat/Long etc etc. A repeater would involve getting another LCD display and wiring it to mimic the first display. And it's kind of a bitmap read out, it will provide a pixel image of a fuel gauge etc. So would have to link displays wiv a big ribbon cable. Way beyond my pathetic wiring-stuff-up skills.

Pity the market is so small, otherwise non volvo peeps would make aftermarket gear. But maybe they do..... there are loads of trucks with D12 engines, there might be some US aftermarket gear that's much cheaper. AFAIK the data codes on canbus wiring are based on some autoindustry standard . If I can find an hour to google for it there might be something.....

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[dannyxx]

hi

thanks for the reply.
yes they are two different boats but being new to it i had to decifer if i wanted the sporty look or the livable style of the flybridge.i visited both boats and the targa 52 (without that new retractable roof i may add)one hands down .mark from peters was also helpful and not at all pushy..The feedback from this forum has been invaluable .
i did also visit the sunseeker manhattan 50 which was a new flybridge and was stunned by its great interior (on the note of another thread i didnt find the salesman at all pushy) (even though he had only been there working for them for three days)
At the end of the day i aint loaded and it will come down to price .The manhattan 50 may just be a step to far at this stage.Thank you for your comments no doubt i will be asking for help again

thank you
danny

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[tcm]

aw, i don't "hate" it - but i think that seeing how good the t48 was, and seeing how good their flybridges can be, it could be better. In fact, it could have thrashed everyone out of sight. frexample, It's a bit of a bummer if the main cabin on a t52 is actually a bit *smaller* than the t48, and so on.

who cares tho, if you like it, that's that. They're all a compromise.

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