TAMD 74 P seawater in the cylinder

[vekku]

When starting the port side engine it didn`t crank properly at first. When finally got it running it worked ok, but after driving two hours discovered that valvecovers, breathing hose ( from valvecover to filters) and crankcase breathing filters were full of gray foam/mud. Oil is still black. Also noticed there is a tiny rusty hole underneath exhaust elbow dripping brown rusty water. My question is that is there any possibility seawater can get into cylinders from broken exhaust elbow when the boat is not used for a while? When first running into this starting problem the boat had been unused for 4weeks.
Boat is fairline phantom 43 and engines are TAMD 74 P`s

 

[Portofino]

If the elbow is seawater cooled and the instal is such ( angulation of engine / postion of elbow ) that if it has corroded through * on the inside -- then yes .Water could run back inside - drip into the exhaust manifold and into a cylinder via an open valve(s) on the exhaust side .
Not so sure how products of diesel and seawater combustion could get into the rocker box or sump areas - unless it's found it's way past the valve guides ? Into the rocker box ,or piston rings dripping slowly when stopped into the sump ?

I was not very impressed with quality of the metal castings on the marine bolt on,s when I had a Vp powered set up? External rust spots on the elbow = new one needed

* spaying seawater into hot diesel exhaust gas = production of highly corrosive sulphuric acid ,this eventually knackers the metal -

 

[vekku]

It´s kind of mystery how water could travel up to the rocker box. I guess through valve guides is the only way if even possible. Both boxes looks exactly the same. Top part of covers are filled with gray foam and I can see clear water drops on top of some valve clearance adjusting nuts. Maybe I should try to run the engine with covers open and see what happens.

 

[volvopaul]

It´s kind of mystery how water could travel up to the rocker box. I guess through valve guides is the only way if even possible. Both boxes looks exactly the same. Top part of covers are filled with gray foam and I can see clear water drops on top of some valve clearance adjusting nuts. Maybe I should try to run the engine with covers open and see what happens.

The 74 suffered from cracked exhaust manifolds, in the early years I remember a room full of brand new manifolds at a boats dealers where they had changed many of used a nod new stock boats.
The last Targa 43 I was involved with grey sludge etc in the valve covers has sat with water in the cylinder eventually making it way into the sump, when the engine was run up the oil temp is higher than the coolant temp so it boiled the water that sat low in the sump, what we thought was smoke coming from the two breather filters was actually steam as the high oil temp burnt off the water.
In the meantime the water also made its way into the valve covers as the steam rose inside the crankcase.
You have also suffered partial hydraulic lock so you may have bent a con rod in the process.

I would be carrying out a coolant pressure test before you go any further , as an ex Phantom 43 owner I know you have the manuflex style risers so I'd doubt very much that sea water has entered your cylinder that way unless there seriously rotten as there stainless, where the stock troublesome 3 piece Volvo elbow is renown for falling apart and trashing your pristine engine bay usually at full chat.
I'd check to see if you have had new manifolds, you can usually see the paint has been disturbed in past years.

Is your boat a UK model and if so where as I know of most P 43 in the uk.

 

[vekku]

Ok, thanks volvopaul. I haven`t had time to introduce myself with the structure of the exhaust manifold. I suppose you are saying that it´s freshwater cooled and water might be going into cylinders via cracks inside the manifold? That could make sense. I haven´t lost coolant, but then again the heat exchanger is so large that it´s not easy to detect the loss in the beginning.
We run the engine quite a while and it sounded ok, so I hope I didn´t bend any connecting rods. Maybe the starter motor wasn`t strong enought to damage the rods. Hopefully. I will try to get it pressure tested and move on from there.
The boat was originally located in UK, then went down to Portugal and now in Finland. I don´t think any of the previous owners have renewed manifolds.
Thanks again Paul

 

[volvopaul]

Ok, thanks volvopaul. I haven`t had time to introduce myself with the structure of the exhaust manifold. I suppose you are saying that it´s freshwater cooled and water might be going into cylinders via cracks inside the manifold? That could make sense. I haven´t lost coolant, but then again the heat exchanger is so large that it´s not easy to detect the loss in the beginning.
We run the engine quite a while and it sounded ok, so I hope I didn´t bend any connecting rods. Maybe the starter motor wasn`t strong enought to damage the rods. Hopefully. I will try to get it pressure tested and move on from there.
The boat was originally located in UK, then went down to Portugal and now in Finland. I don´t think any of the previous owners have renewed manifolds.
Thanks again Paul

Blue hulled one from Vilamoura for a guess.
Yes you have green coolant in the exhaust manifold but sea water through the exhaust elbow riser.

 

[vekku]

Thats the one

 

[vekku]

Yesterday went for a testdrive. Port engine started without problems. Run 1hr with 2440rpm-WOT. Everything ok. Today Port engine didn`t crank. Took up all injectors and found seawater from all cylinders. Cylinder no 5 intake valve was in open position and filled with seawater (almost 3dl). I guess I have a faulty after cooler? Anyone heard/witnessed issues with charge air cooler? What might cause the leak besides faulty insert of course.

 

[vekku]

Latest update regarding this issue. I was looking for engine bay pictures of all Fairline Phantom 43`s I could find and noticed something strange. My boat is equipped with volvo penta exhaust elbow which goes first horizontally and then down towards the silencer. All the other setups I could find are made by using Halyard UK riser going first up after turbo and then down to the silencer. My boat is year 2000 and Halyard told they started making these risers back in 2001. Now I am wondering if there was a problem with these boats causing seawater climbing up through exhaust pipe and ending up into cylinders. My boat is parked stern against the weather and according to my very rough measurings the lover part of turbo is only 18cm ( 7inches) above sealevel. I mean there must have been a reason why they installed risers to all post 2000 Phantoms?

 

[volvopaul]

Latest update regarding this issue. I was looking for engine bay pictures of all Fairline Phantom 43`s I could find and noticed something strange. My boat is equipped with volvo penta exhaust elbow which goes first horizontally and then down towards the silencer. All the other setups I could find are made by using Halyard UK riser going first up after turbo and then down to the silencer. My boat is year 2000 and Halyard told they started making these risers back in 2001. Now I am wondering if there was a problem with these boats causing seawater climbing up through exhaust pipe and ending up into cylinders. My boat is parked stern against the weather and according to my very rough measurings the lover part of turbo is only 18cm ( 7inches) above sealevel. I mean there must have been a reason why they installed risers to all post 2000 Phantoms?

I had same boat 2004 model with halyard dry exhaust elbow, I'd suggest someone has fitted the Volvo elbow by mistake and that is where the sea water has penetrated your engine , the design of the engine e bay and the dustbin style muffler need the extra height of the swept dry riser .

 

[vekku]

I had same boat 2004 model with halyard dry exhaust elbow, I'd suggest someone has fitted the Volvo elbow by mistake and that is where the sea water has penetrated your engine , the design of the engine e bay and the dustbin style muffler need the extra height of the swept dry riser .

I really hope this is the answer to my questions. I placed an order for one riser ( 1090 euros ex vat) and if it helps then change the stb side as well. Now it really seems like water goes to the cylinders and ends up into a oilpan and like you wrote earlier it "boils" up to the valve covers through crankcase ventilation also blocking the filters.
I read volvo penta installation manual and it was written that an anti-siphoning valve ( vacuum valve) should be fitted if the distance between the exhaust pipe flange (lower part) and waterline is less than 200mm (8"). I haven`t seen this any of the Phantom pictures I found, so hopefully riser does the trick and no need to install this anti-siphoning valve system.

 

[volvopaul]

I really hope this is the answer to my questions. I placed an order for one riser ( 1090 euros ex vat) and if it helps then change the stb side as well. Now it really seems like water goes to the cylinders and ends up into a oilpan and like you wrote earlier it "boils" up to the valve covers through crankcase ventilation also blocking the filters.
I read volvo penta installation manual and it was written that an anti-siphoning valve ( vacuum valve) should be fitted if the distance between the exhaust pipe flange (lower part) and waterline is less than 200mm (8"). I haven`t seen this any of the Phantom pictures I found, so hopefully riser does the trick and no need to install this anti-siphoning valve system.

Anti syphon system is t required on a big engine unless it's in a boat where the whole engine is sited below the waterline as per most small marine gen sets and yacht engines. You need the correct exhaust elbow from halyard or manuflex .

 

[vekku]

After installing the riser to my port side engine I haven`t had issues when cranking up. Seems like the riser sorted out this problem and seawater stays out of the cylinders. Case closed.