Tamd 74/75 engine revs change whilst running

[Portofino]

The thing is Porto, there's limitations to what Vodia can measure. For example, the engine diagnostic system can measure the resistance across a sensor and compare it to some parameters to determine if it is faulty. But it can't detect an RPM sensor that has become contaminated with rust.

Also, if there are voltage issue with the feed to the ECU then the ECU can give incorrect fault codes.

Finally, I'm not sure how you think that injector issues can be detected when they are mechanical injectors (I suspect the same applies to your engine).

Personal experience of motor electrotwackery Pete .
Not sure how advanced Volvo are but assumed there or there about .
The reason why i emphasised a fresh paid up VP tech is a lot of this stuff needs up dating , software etc bit like your I pad .
They have to first buy the thing then subscribe to the updates .If they don’t as the years roll by the diagnostic tool becomes less and less useful .

As for EDC I took it as electronic diesel control .
With mine MAN are sensor heavy are most German automotive , Merc BMW and Bentley ( don’t ask me how I know ? )
Its a German thing and partly emissions driven .
My 2003 motors are just before CR , so EDC a lot of std sensors like the infamous load and EDC and even fuel burn .
Those or that info is what they thought the punter might like to see so with the MMDS they allow Joe public access .
To be fair knowing inlet water pressure ie your impeller health is useful to know as well as EGT s .

So what does all this mean that’s just the tip of the ice berg there’s shed loads of other stuff only the official ( ( fully subscribed dealer ) can access with his lap top .

Eg I had a sensor go on a cylinder my MMDS flagged “ sensor error “
Tech arrived plugged in said wizardry and on the screen got up pages and pages of crap .One screen we saw like a bar chart of all 6 .You name it ,Fuel pressure injector opening times , vol of fuel used , the volts to the thing as well .
Obviously we were seeing 6 equal lines , but the thing that was faulty was lower than the other 5 .Bar charts are easy to spot outliners .
As a back stop the ECU because it was getting an implausible volt sig from a sensor on this injector switched it to a common av time opening not individually,if you see what I mean so no show stopper for me , boat worked I just sensor error and cleared it every time until the new part was fitted ,

960 hrs .
So I asked him heard on forums injectors need pulling every 1000 hr or something.
” lets have a look he said “
So I revved it up etc etc and he went through various screens gobbledegook and retorted look .Look at what ?
He went through the screens showing my engine overlayed with factory spec .All within .
Leave them the “computer said no “
He did say he pulls them at 2000 hrs more to ensure they do not cease in place .

As said not sure how deep Swedish have gone with electrotwackery + sensors .
Would have thought a simple crank sensors would flag “ implausible signal “ .This means the sig coming back to the ECU has fallen out of range , ie rust as you say or broken wire , dodgy connection etc .
Anyhow points you to the offending item .

The alternative to vodia is enter a parts throwing fest .

 

[Mr Googler]

Theres quite a few

 

[petem]

Personal experience of motor electrotwackery Pete .
Not sure how advanced Volvo are but assumed there or there about .
The reason why i emphasised a fresh paid up VP tech is a lot of this stuff needs up dating , software etc bit like your I pad .
They have to first buy the thing then subscribe to the updates .If they don’t as the years roll by the diagnostic tool becomes less and less useful .

As for EDC I took it as electronic diesel control .
With mine MAN are sensor heavy are most German automotive , Merc BMW and Bentley ( don’t ask me how I know ? )
Its a German thing and partly emissions driven .
My 2003 motors are just before CR , so EDC a lot of std sensors like the infamous load and EDC and even fuel burn .
Those or that info is what they thought the punter might like to see so with the MMDS they allow Joe public access .
To be fair knowing inlet water pressure ie your impeller health is useful to know as well as EGT s .

So what does all this mean that’s just the tip of the ice berg there’s shed loads of other stuff only the official ( ( fully subscribed dealer ) can access with his lap top .

Eg I had a sensor go on a cylinder my MMDS flagged “ sensor error “
Tech arrived plugged in said wizardry and on the screen got up pages and pages of crap .One screen we saw like a bar chart of all 6 .You name it ,Fuel pressure injector opening times , vol of fuel used , the volts to the thing as well .
Obviously we were seeing 6 equal lines , but the thing that was faulty was lower than the other 5 .Bar charts are easy to spot outliners .
As a back stop the ECU because it was getting an implausible volt sig from a sensor on this injector switched it to a common av time opening not individually,if you see what I mean so no show stopper for me , boat worked I just sensor error and cleared it every time until the new part was fitted ,

960 hrs .
So I asked him heard on forums injectors need pulling every 1000 hr or something.
” lets have a look he said “
So I revved it up etc etc and he went through various screens gobbledegook and retorted look .Look at what ?
He went through the screens showing my engine overlayed with factory spec .All within .
Leave them the “computer said no “
He did say he pulls them at 2000 hrs more to ensure they do not cease in place .

As said not sure how deep Swedish have gone with electrotwackery + sensors .
Would have thought a simple crank sensors would flag “ implausible signal “ .This means the sig coming back to the ECU has fallen out of range , ie rust as you say or broken wire , dodgy connection etc .
Anyhow points you to the offending item .

The alternative to vodia is enter a parts throwing fest .

That's a lot of words but he's already been to two VP dealers and neither of them have diagnosed the issue. I assume that they would have both plugged in Vodia.

What I've done is suggested the fixes from previous threads where the owners had the same issue.

Indeed, we had a very similar issue on one of our engines where the engine was reporting a "Fuel Rod Position Sensor" error which would have required a strip down of the injector pump. The VP dealer recognised the issue and immediately attributed it to a battery / charger issue. New batter / charger and the problem went away.

 

[Robert adam]

Thanks for that I will certainly look into with dealer. But I don’t think it’s injector problem as fault is with both engines and started when engines were about 2 1/2 years old and only aprox 200 hours use . I’d have thought injectors would last a lot longer without fault. But if dealer can check their operations I will ask them anyway. Thanks again .

 

[petem]

Wha

Thanks for that I will certainly look into with dealer. But I don’t think it’s injector problem as fault is with both engines and started when engines were about 2 1/2 years old and only aprox 200 hours use . I’d have thought injectors would last a lot longer without fault. But if dealer can check their operations I will ask them anyway. Thanks again .

What engines are they?

 

[Portofino]

That's a lot of words but he's already been to two VP dealers and neither of them have diagnosed the issue. I assume that they would have both plugged in Vodia.

What I've done is suggested the fixes from previous threads where the owners had the same issue.

Indeed, we had a very similar issue on one of our engines where the engine was reporting a "Fuel Rod Position Sensor" error which would have required a strip down of the injector pump. The VP dealer recognised the issue and immediately attributed it to a battery / charger issue. New batter / charger and the problem went away.

He’s not had a vodia on it . That’s was my point and in some ways VPauls , not all techs carry them .

Yes low batts throw codes spurious codes , but the device hooked up normally differentiates reads the voltage to said sensors .

Thats pretty common btw fresh batt in your experience and ties in my avoiding a “ parts throwing fest “

 

[petem]

He’s not had a vodia on it . That’s was my point and in some ways VPauls , not all techs carry them .

Yes low batts throw codes spurious codes , but the device hooked up normally differentiates reads the voltage to said sensors .

Thats pretty common btw fresh batt in your experience and ties in my avoiding a “ parts throwing fest “

All Volvo Penta dealers have Vodia and plugging it in to read codes would be a normal part of their fault diagnosing. How do you know that the two VP dealers haven't plugged a Vodia in?

In my case, it was the VP dealers knowledge, not Vodia that identified the error.

 

[Portofino]

All Volvo Penta dealers have Vodia and plugging it in to read codes would be a normal part of their fault diagnosing. How do you know that the two VP dealers haven't plugged a Vodia in?

In my case, it was the VP dealers knowledge, not Vodia that identified the error.

He hasn’t said so , or given a confirmatory yes to my Q at #15 .
Said “ thx I will look into it “
By now he would have confirmed .

You are not reading what I said .I said spurious errors do get thrown by low batt situations.
Eg Bentley GT s the “ seat back not engaged “light pops up when ambient drops to minus 10 .= just needs a good run or trickle charger .It does not need a new micro switch or new seat .You don’t ( if experienced like your tech guy) need to waste a 1 hr of customer billed time plugging it in to the VAG diagnostic.

Another Porsche dash lights popping on , making Oxford street xmas lights look 2nd class .You could take it to a dealer who would run a chargeable time diagnostic first or simply replace the bat DIY , Halfords or a Porsche Indy specialist.
When the new batts in simply take that £10 Lidl voltmeter and check the terminal V rises with the engine running over 14 v ….to make sure there are no alternator issues .Job done no diagnostic gobbledegook needed .

Its Vodia time for the OP , and as I said try and get a guy with the latest version all updated if VP ( suspect they do ) regularly update them in the field .Not saying a 2006 version won’t do it , but if you are forking out ……….

 

[Portofino]

So what s the msg you are saying Pete ?
Buy a VP engined boat because there are dealers in every marina .So many In fact Robert ( the thread author ) has been through two and still is no better off getting a diagnosis having them attend his low hrs boat ?

What are you suggesting Berth it somewhere with 4 , 5 , even 6 dealers ?
How many does it take to change a light bulb ….sorry fix a boat ?

 

[petem]

He hasn’t said so , or given a confirmatory yes to my Q at #15 .
Said “ thx I will look into it “
By now he would have confirmed .

You only asked him at 10am on Saturday! I find it hard to believe that two VP dealers have given up trying to fix this without plugging their Vodia into it.

You stating that Vodia hasn't been plugged in as a fact is plain wrong.

 

[petem]

Engines were fine for about 2 years seem to remember fault started just after warranty ended. Can’t remember if both engines developed problem at same time but I guess so as sync system would alter revs on other engin. I have on numerous occasions switched off the syn and both engines still play up but the port changes revs over a greater range ie starboard does not change more than 200 rpm port will go up or down by max 500rpm.

I'm confused by this. When did the warranty end? These engines have bene out of production for 18 years or so haven't they?

Has the problem been evident for 15 years?

 

[Portofino]

You only asked him at 10am on Saturday! I find it hard to believe that two VP dealers have given up trying to fix this without plugging their Vodia into it.

You stating that Vodia hasn't been plugged in as a fact is plain wrong.

See post , Roberts #24 .Today .

Woke up with for arguments for arguments sake hat on this morning Pete ?

 

[petem]

See post , Roberts #24 .Today .

Woke up with for arguments for arguments sake hat on this morning Pete ?

Where in post #24 did he say that the dealer had confirmed that they'd plugged in Vodia?

I'm not arguing for arguments sake, just calling you out for making stuff up!

 

[Portofino]

Thanks for that I will certainly look into with dealer. But I don’t think it’s injector problem as fault is with both engines and started when engines were about 2 1/2 years old and only aprox 200 hours use . I’d have thought injectors would last a lot longer without fault. But if dealer can check their operations I will ask them anyway. Thanks again .

Robert I take it the previous two techs did not plug a diagnostic tool called Vodia in .
This is what you mean when replying to my post when was suggesting get it a vodia equipped guy to plug it in
quote from above …
” Thx for that I will certainly look into with dealer “
and “ But if the dealer can check there operations I will ask them anyhow “

Btw i used injectors as an illustrated example of how a Dx lap top can cut eventually with a trained experienced operator to the nub of the matter .Wasn’t say your issue was related .

@ Pete if it’s been plugged in , 2x or even 1X it’s a pretty crappy Volvo Penta service that a accurate diagnosis cannot be found .
Generally ( suspect Volvo ) ECU store error codes , dates times etc .Even though the owners got rid of them on the dash the manufacturers tech with the latest manufacturers soft ware bit of kit can see them .

Some store stuff on another level eg overloads excess EGTs everything , in the car world over revs , the speed , redlines , clutch wear and a zillion other stuff oblivious to the owners inc the true milage or in boat world true hrs or vol of fuel used .

I have never in 20 yrs of multiple ownership of electrotwackery ECU computer operated cars + boats + very expensive medical kit , agriculture machines ( after DIY attempts) to get a diagnosis FIRST time , leading to a fix when the things been plugged into the most software up date manufacturers bit of kit by a agent from the manufacturers.
It costs sure but you get that bit of kit up and running PDQ .

 

[petem]

@Portofino as I've said, the first gen of VP EDC isn't infallible. There's lots of faults that it won't detect. I'm sure that @volvopaul will confirm.

And these engines are getting on for 20 years old now. Sadly, the knowledge required to fix them isn't as plentiful as it could be. The kids coming through the system now are really just fitters replacing whatever bits the diagnostic systems tell them to replace.

 

[Robert adam]

Hi thanks all for input. I will try and clarify. My boat is 17 years old. I bought it new in 2005. Problem started late 2007. Hence just out of warranty. First dealer I contacted was in 2007 they did plug into a computer but could not find fault they also spent a while on the boat trying to solve problem but came up with nothing except an outrageous invoice. I spoke to VP ( can’t remember when ) direct but after passing me to various mechanics referred be back to a dealer. So hit a dead end. Tried again with another dealer I think about 5 years back who basically repeated what the first dealer had done and likewise involved me. So I have been using the boat with this problem for years. I had not heard of the vodia fault finding so I assumed it is something newer then the previous dealers have tried. Does anyone know how old vodia program is? Would it be the same as used 5 years Ago? Thanks

 

[Robert adam]

Hi again just checked engine serial numbers on Volvo penta web site for recall info. It states no recalls on my engines. Shame hoped from earlier message that there might be to fix this problem.

 

[Robert adam]

thanks for idea but unfortunately not the problem. Happens in smooth water as well.

 

[petem]

Hi thanks all for input. I will try and clarify. My boat is 17 years old. I bought it new in 2005. Problem started late 2007. Hence just out of warranty. First dealer I contacted was in 2007 they did plug into a computer but could not find fault they also spent a while on the boat trying to solve problem but came up with nothing except an outrageous invoice. I spoke to VP ( can’t remember when ) direct but after passing me to various mechanics referred be back to a dealer. So hit a dead end. Tried again with another dealer I think about 5 years back who basically repeated what the first dealer had done and likewise involved me. So I have been using the boat with this problem for years. I had not heard of the vodia fault finding so I assumed it is something newer then the previous dealers have tried. Does anyone know how old vodia program is? Would it be the same as used 5 years Ago? Thanks

Vodia came out at the same time that the engines were launched. So if the dealer plugged the engines into a computer that's what they would have used.

I do like the idea of fitting an SPM (as someone else has suggested) if one hasn't already been fitted already (assuming that they're still available).

Put this into your Google search query and you can see related threads...

site:ybw.com spm

 

[Portofino]

Very disappointing no one arrived at the diagnosis nearer the time the fault first surfaced .Very poor imho .
Try another with the latest diagnostic soft ware all up to date , an official agent for your area .
Where are you btw ?

But you do have to buy there time + traveling etc .

As I said earlier from experience the diagnostic time is money well spent in the long run .
Not sure how supported Volvo are with field techs + vodia.
I know in the MAN marine world they subscribe to up dates .Eg my 2004 motors are still on the menus of official guy .
In the motor trade I know many Indy’s who run off from the franchised and set up on there own say in 2007 but there kit is frozen from 2007 back .
So for example ( your Q ^ ) if you took a 2010 car the diagnostic kit can only do so much basic stuff .
This might mean taking to a person who has say up to 2015 kit who will find the fault .

Obviously the franchised dealer at 2 x the hourly rate has always the right diagnostic kit .
Sometimes the soft ware has a date stamp and ends say within 3 yrs forcing Indy’s to re buy if the manufacture allows .
Ferrari don’t allow any other than franchised access to “ Leonardo “ .
Say you bought a £160 K s worth of Ferrari 458 and it throws a light on the dash a mot fail light .No Indy on the planet will be able to diagnose it .
So it all depends if
Vodia is up dated , who’s allowed , how much , can Joe public just order one off VP ? Are they time barred etc .

So to give you an idea “ Leonardo “ costs £30 K to buy and a further £ 5/6 K monthly subscription.

So it’s a bit of a mine field as you have discovered finding the right guy with the “allegedly” the right kit .Good luck .