Taking boat to Spain

[White_Lady]

Morning all.I am now wanting to take our new( to us ), sailing boat to warmer climes.
We have spent the last 6 years there and ended up in Mar Menor which we loved.
The boat, a Beneteau 44cc is in Gosport.
The first thought that with suitable friends we should go across Biscay as a first leg.
As i have only done the odd overnight before ( although other crew will have done more), is this wise?
Can anyone suggest a route perhaps in shorter, 2 day hops that would be fun?
It does not matter if it takes all season to reach Spain,as long as the berthing costs are not going to be enormous overall.
I am happy to do a week then leave boat for a while between trips.

Thanks for advice

Phil

 

[Twister_Ken]

I've looked vaguely at this, and believe it is possible to coast hop as far south as Bordeaux, but that at some time you have to go offshore to get around a French missile testing range (and the coast south of there is short of real harbours of refuge). This will leave you with two or three nights at sea, as you head for the NW coast of Spain.

You might describe this as mini-Biscay, rather than maxi. A possible problem though is that this will leave you having to beat to Spain, rather than reach if you did the maxi version.

Others with actual experience will probably shoot me down in flames, so I'm just off to check my parachute.

 

[activesail]

Biscay.

Having looked at the Reeds Almanac for the South Brittany and Biscay coastal areas. There are quite a lot of ports available along these coasts.

So it will be possible to do short hops between ports if you don't fancy doing a distance sail across Biscay.

I hope this helps.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Employ a delivery crew and sail with them if you want.

In my opinion the mini Biscay is not a good idea because you have to head direct into the wind with a small course target for three days. Better bite the old bullet and do the five day crossing from UK because you then have a wider choice of compass courses depending on the wind direction. Head out to sea and avoid the Biscay area all together.

A modern 44 foot Yacht in harbour hopping mode is daft in my opinion. 18 foot Shrimpy did it direct singlehanded while frying egg and chips in a portable primus held between his knees.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Blue Two talks sense (Crosshaven rather than Falmouth would be the ideal maxi-Biscay starting point) BUT doing it that way you miss out on a summer's cruising of West Country, north and south Brittany and French Atlantic coast.

 

[Tradewinds]

Blue Two talks sense (Crosshaven rather than Falmouth would be the ideal maxi-Biscay starting point) BUT doing it that way you miss out on a summer's cruising of West Country, north and south Brittany and French Atlantic coast.

Morgat > Ribadeo did it for me. That was late August - waited for a decent 3 day forecast from Northwood & had a great sail. Returned a few years later La Corunna > Chenal de Four > Brixham - flat calm for most of the way.

Perhaps I was lucky but both passages were good in their own way.

 

[dk]

That way you'll end up with a hard slog to windward with no decent safe haven to run to should it turn nasty. Better to circular cruise S Britanny down to, say, La Rochelle, ending up back in Concarneau or Benodet, then go for it from there. Sea room is the key - too many have run into trouble leaving from LR or Bordeaux and fighting the Atlantic seas from the west.

BTW - more often than not the crossing is a doddle providing you get a decent 5-day forecast.

 

[theguerns]

biscay crossing

We sailed our Colvic Watson 32 Motor Sailor from Camaret to Viveiro 60 hrs. The problem with going all the way round the bay is you never get off the continental shelf so sail in choppy seas most of the tme. Going from Camaret you drop off the shelf in the first day then catch your first Tuna (we did 11kilos of him) then you have one more night and a daytime arrival in Viveiro. A Lovely Marina with english speaking harbourmaster good pontoons electric and water good supermarket lovely resturants and very friendly people. You can anchor 20mts of a sandy beach and go ashore in the dinghy if you want. After a short stay you can then head west then south to the Sadara anchorage where I think they have just built a new marina. And the on south in day hops or more as you want. We spent 3 months visiting all the ports and Ria's and wouldnt have missed it for anything. We arrived in Lagos to a great welcome from the marina staff who couldnt do enough for you.

 

[maxi77]

I've looked vaguely at this, and believe it is possible to coast hop as far south as Bordeaux, but that at some time you have to go offshore to get around a French missile testing range (and the coast south of there is short of real harbours of refuge). This will leave you with two or three nights at sea, as you head for the NW coast of Spain.

You might describe this as mini-Biscay, rather than maxi. A possible problem though is that this will leave you having to beat to Spain, rather than reach if you did the maxi version.

Others with actual experience will probably shoot me down in flames, so I'm just off to check my parachute.

That range of Arcachon is closed for August and the weekends and most nights so one can avoid the mini bay depending on exact timeing Also I believe like UK range areas they do publish usage data.

 

[macd]

A search will reveal many posts on a similar topic. The advice tends to split into the 'go deep' route, off the continental shelf all the way, coast-hopping, or something in between. The plain truth is that there is no 'right way.'

Given your leisurely timetable and wish to explore on the way, I'd have no hesitation in commending some variation on the middle option -- crossing from somewhere near Lorient or even the isles to the south of it (Belle Isle is, well...lovely), or even La Rochelle, to somewhere near Gijon. Shorter still would be making landfall around Bilbao or Santander. Apart from anything else, this allows you to explore the whole of the Rias Altas, which are not to be missed.

If the 'deep' route has a problem, other than sheer time at sea, it's that its very length takes it out of the realm of reliable forecasting. Something like the Belle Isle - Gijon route, on the other hand, should take no more than 48 hours -- well within the province of reliable forecasts. Since you appear to have time on your hands, you can afford to wait for a good weather window. Of course much will depend on whether your crew is as flexible as you, which only you will know.

As for berthing costs, it's perfectly possible to do the lot without once tying to a pontoon. Brittany, in particular, has lots of good anchorages. In many areas mooring buoys are also available at modest cost.

 

[rallyveteran]

I did the day hop option last summer (2009) in a 45 foot yacht. The only nights we sailed were Royan - Hondarribia (because we didn't fancy Arcachon), Santander to Gijon (Ribadasella looked a bit shallow) and Peniche to Lagos as we had strong crew and good wind. Otherwise it was day hops all the way. We had a brilliant time as by picking our days to travel we managed to sail a lot more than motor, and rarely had rain at sea.

Not many people know that the Basque country is the culinary highlight of Spain where a typical menu del dia for 13 euros would do justice to a cookery competition.

 

[White_Lady]

how long?

I did the day hop option last summer (2009) in a 45 foot yacht. The only nights we sailed were Royan - Hondarribia (because we didn't fancy Arcachon), Santander to Gijon (Ribadasella looked a bit shallow) and Peniche to Lagos as we had strong crew and good wind. Otherwise it was day hops all the way. We had a brilliant time as by picking our days to travel we managed to sail a lot more than motor, and rarely had rain at sea.

Not many people know that the Basque country is the culinary highlight of Spain where a typical menu del dia for 13 euros would do justice to a cookery competition.

Thanks all for the very usefull replies.

Rallyveteran, how long did your trip take?

 

[rallyveteran]

I took 4.5 months from the Solent to Lagos including three trips home of two weeks each, so about 3 months living aboard but that allowed plenty of time for sightseeing and getting the odd bit of maintenance done.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

We did it hopping down to Bordeaux ( Royanne) and then across to Bilbao. That makes it a 36 hour trip maximum and the weather forecast for that time period is reasonably reliable. The north coast of Spain really is worth a visit - much nicer and more Spanish than the costas. Wife wants to go back there we enjoyed it so much.

By comparison, none of my pals who have done th longer Biscay trip from Penzance to La Corunna have got away without a gale, even in the middle of summer. One had 70 knots in August!

 

[Mrnotming]

Archachon Canyon

Good thread, useful advice.
There is a marine canyon with mud sides extending towards the shallow port of Archachon plainly visible on the charts.Advice seen before says that this is the only place that seas do not break violently during Biscay gales, and the recommendation that I remember was to anchor in mud near the edge (which edge?lots of cable needed presumably).I'm prepared to be flamed on this one as it is a recollection only but just might save some lives. I imagine that we are talking about say 30nm offshore as a survival position. In 2003 I could not get a good forecast for 2 consecutive days from Royan to the North coast of Spain, so I chickened out and went to Bordeaux instead and ran into the wine fair, nearly as dangerous! If doing Cork to La Coruna,down 10 degrees longitude, five or six crew preferred so as to operate a decent watch system.This is what Ryanair is for (Santiago di Campostela) More advice re crew repatriation might boost the thread somewhat?
Good sailing and boating to all.

 

[Sailfree]

I've looked vaguely at this, and believe it is possible to coast hop as far south as Bordeaux, but that at some time you have to go offshore to get around a French missile testing range (and the coast south of there is short of real harbours of refuge). This will leave you with two or three nights at sea, as you head for the NW coast of Spain.

Others with actual experience will probably shoot me down in flames, so I'm just off to check my parachute.

Wrote this after reading Kens post and did not get to all the others!

Yes sorry Ken but unless its changed since we did it on our honeymoon in 2004 you can sail past the range at weekend and I think most of the summer holiday period. IIRC we did it in one day on a really great reach from Port Royan (Bordeaux) down to Cap Breton. In one long day. SWMBO got 9.6kts out of our 38 and remembers it as one of her great siling days (unfortunately too few of them). At Cap Breton we went to the Bayonne festival - gee the French know how to party and the police help by watching people double park in the middle of the road while keeping in the spirit by openly drinking beer from crates in the back of their vans. I think its called light touch policing!! I wish we had more of it in the UK.

We port hopped all the way down to N Spain before our time ran out. We never sailed overnight. We found the summer season great in both France and Spain as there seemed to be a party/festival/band/gig at every port when we arrived.

Was **** weather in 2004 and often waited storm bound in many ports. The thing with this area is that its generally an onshore wind and dangerous to try to make ANY port if it gets too rough. You must be prepared to weather any rough weather or in our case only set sail in favourable forecasts.

We liked Archachan but found the channel had moved about 1/2ml with the shifting sand banks. Well marked channel though but don't try to take shortcuts across the edges of the sandbanks.

In N Spain we met a couple of boats that had got beaten up by storms having sailed right across Biscay taking the deep route.

 

[BigJoe]

We keep our boat in San Pedro, and are just 1 hrs sailing away from the bridge at Tomas Meastra

We love the Mar Menor and spend ½ the summer in there.

Hope you have fair wind and a safe passage, on the voyage down.

 

[Sea Devil]

for what it's worth I have done the direct route across Biscay 5 or 6 times without any problem or challenging weather..

The trick, I think, is to get to Falmouth or similar and wait for a good 5 day forecast of reasonable northerlies then head for Finnesterre and Vigo actually for Bayona... If you do for some reason get pushed into the bay then you can get easily into Coruna... Actually that has never happened to me but it was always my fall back plan.

After Bayona it is all down wind and easy day sails or whatever you feel like.

The problem with port hopping down the French coast which I have also done a couple of times heading for La Rochelle is that it takes a long time - and as bosun Hicks points out you still have to go 'offshore' from Royan or LR and then have a long set of day sails to get you round the corner...

Provided you have reasonable crew and the time to wait for the right weather window I am convinced the direct route - just inside the shipping lanes is the easiest.

For a blow by blow account of my 3rd time across the bay have a look at my BISCAY LOG BOOK which you can find the link to from the sailing page..

http://www.michaelbriant.com/biscay_log_book.htm


Michael

 

[Lady Campanula]

The boat, a Beneteau 44cc is in Gosport.
The first thought that with suitable friends we should go across Biscay as a first leg.
As i have only done the odd overnight before ( although other crew will have done more), is this wise?
Can anyone suggest a route perhaps in shorter, 2 day hops that would be fun?

I am happy to do a week then leave boat for a while between trips.

Thanks for advice

Phil

Is this about an owner with 'Day Skipper'-like limited sea experience seeking to make decisions about, and do, an 'Ocean' trip? Biscay is certainly 'blue-water' and rather a lot of small boats and crews have been lost by owners making wrong decisions - or ill-judged and ill-informed decisions - about how and when to go about this. It bites the unwary and ill-prepared - read 'Heavy Weather Sailing'.

Many, who know in their hearts that their 'know-how' isn't really up to 3-5 days trans-Biscay blue water sailing, consider whether the coast-hopping option is within their capacity. That also has it's problems,for the same lack of awareness that makes the blue-water, direct, option an uncertain undertaking is quite likely to get one into problems hopping coastwise along THAT stretch of coast, should the winds and seas get up. And they do.....

There are many seasoned skippers who would say that the direct route is safer for a relatively inexperienced crew, provided the boat's OK, for getting caught by an unexpected gale closer in to a hazardous lee shore is more likely to result in loss of boat and/or life.

On the other hand, it's about the quality of judgement and the depth of resource/experience that the skipper can bring to bear, and this 'inexperienced' owner might have developed enough of that by a series of coastal hops such that, when the challenges come, there's enough there to meet them.

Plenty of people will tell us what they've done, and whether they were lucky with the weather. It shouldn't be about luck - but about judgement. And that's down to this owner. It's his *responsibility* to get it right.

One might suggest that he takes his Beneteau 44CC, in a series of hops, to the Isles of Scilly. There, he can weigh his options and his confidence in himself. Should a stable light-winds met situation then develop, he can make direct for Finisterre in expectation of a gentle passage. Otherwise, he can make cross-channel for Ouessant - inside or well out - then Camaret/Douarnenez and South Brittany.

If he finds himself ill at ease at the prospect of Scilly-Camaret, that would seem to me to be the little warning bell we all have, but few of us listen to these days. Then perhaps he should give the task to someone better-qualified, with the requisite expertise. It's not an ego trip....

IMHO.

 

[Halcyon Yachts]

I would recommend Brittany as your first destination. There are so many great harbours, anchorages and places to explore by yacht. Camaret is fantastic, and from there you could head directly to Coruna in Spain. With a good forecast before you leave it should be a pleasant 3 day sail… Enjoy!