Taking a dog to the French coast. Advice sought.

I am not in the slightest suggesting we drop the passport and inocculation scheme, rather that we drop the UK only add ons that have nothing to do with rabies. The scheme as operated by other European nations is helping reduce the prevalence of rabies in both domestic pets and wild animals.
 
I think the point that you are missing is that the UK is completely Rabies free, whereas it is an endemic disease in other European countries, and only controlled by innoculation etc.

The other treatments for ticks etc. prior to coming back to the UK is important because UK pets do not have a natural resistance to some of the ailments that they can get in the rest of Europe.

As has been said, the system works. Yes, there will always be a few who try to duck the system either by intent or ignorance, but the penalties are there if they are caught.
 
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When leaving the UK for another country, eg France, there is now no requiremet to produces any documentation to prove that the pet has had a rabies jab.

[/ QUOTE ]That is not correct. You need an EU Pet Passport to take your animal into any EU country. It is identical in its requirements of rabies jabs as the UK one, except that the UK Pet Passport also requires a blood test and a vet certificate of de-worming upon return to the UK. In addition, you can only enter the UK at certain 'approved entry ports' as opposed to the EU passport that allows you to land anywhere, as long as you have the valid paperwork.

Because the passports are so very similar; you can travel all over the EU on a UK Pet Passport, but you cannot take an animal into the UK on an EU Pet Passport.

The UK always have to have slightly different and more onerous rules, doesn't it? This is the pet equivalent of 'Health & Safety Rules'.
 
No I think you are missing the point, I fully support the anti rabies activities, and in fact took quite some convincing that the innoculation route was in fact valid for the UK. Yes the UK has always been rabies free, but continental countries are moving that way and several are now reconised by WHO as free of the disease. It has taken many years of hard work by them to achieve this and I am sure that countries like France who have been designated as Rabies free have no intention of allowing themselves to slide backwards, yet they seem to be able to achieve this with a far lighter hand than our lot, and they are well known for using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, just look at the way the approach boating safety.

I have yet to see a list of diseases which the worming and tick treatment will save us from, certainly DEFRA do not seem to advertise then, simply make the transporting of pets more difficult, and in my opinion make the country more vulnerable to people not taking proper precautions for the safety of their own pets and other animals.

People question the rules not because they want to harm animal health in the UK but because they do not see practical benefits from the way they are currently enforced.
 
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but the penalties are there if they are caught.

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I'm still trying to get to the bottom of what the penalties are. If, as another poster says, one option if caught is to submit to quarantine, then this is not much of a deterrent? I spoke to Defra last year who agreed (after some debate) that it was in fact legal to land your pets from your own vessel, in an approved port, in order to put them in quarantine. The quarantine company will board your vessel, take them into quarantine and it is there that the tick/worm treatment is carried out. The quarantine co applies for a licence to do this, then a further licence to apply for early release on the basis that a pet passport exists. We got a quote for circa £350 for two cats for the whole process, but to do the whole diversion to Holland, get a ferry etc was slightly less expensive though probably more stressful for the cats.

So what I'm reading into this debate is that you could spend the money upfront, or take a chance and if caught spend the money then? As I said previously I thought the penalties would be more severe, but would love someone who knows to spell out what, exactly, they are.

Doing a quick search I found this: which seems to indicate that the current proposals are valid for five years (to July 2009) so maybe there's hope for the future?
 
Yes one can only hope that common sense will prevail and we will move more in line with the European norm which does seem to be working as part of a strategy to drive back the onslaught of rabies in Europe.

I do think the present apparently over the top system does leave the nation more open to improper importation of pets than it would be if the system more closely matched the general European system.

Equally I wonder what real sanction DEFRA would have if you actually arrived on an improper carrier ie ones own boat, yet had the passport with appropriate certification of worm and tick treatment.
 
Yes, France is rabies free, but is germany, switzerland, Holland, Belgium, italy, spain, portugal, eastern Europe and all the other countries/regions connected to France, by LAND!!! How are they innoculating the fox population? Remember UK is an island (or four-twelve) If there is no rabies here, it stays that way, with controls in place, try that in continental europe.
That is the reason for controlws, how do we know te dog/cat etc came from France? Originally and if peoples passports can be forged, pet ones must be a peioce of piss, and dont say they are chipped!!!
Get wise!
 
So you advocate the cessation of the pet passport scheme despite the evidence that it does actually work.

How do you think France has pushed back the rabid invasion, not just by innoculation of dogs and cats but also by innoculating the wild animal population as well.

Despite the open borders with countries that are not yet rabies free France has achieved rabies free status, sort of goes against your point.
 
So France has innoculated all the wild animal population??? Just like they have wpied out mad cow disease and foot and mouth I suppose?
I doubt that very much! But as I said, have they wiped out rabies in all the surrounding countries?? Stop being pedantic here, they cannot wipe out rabies in Europe yet, they hope to, but not yet.
By the way, the WHO said a few other diseases were wiped out, but they have risen from the grave as well, so dont believe all you hear.
No, by the way, I do not advocate the cessation of the pets scheme. I want it kept. I also want the UK system kept as it is, until we can gaurantee that rabies will not come to this country. It was a huge step forward allowing pets to be taken abroad, and returned without quarantine, slowly, slowly.
 
I think many are unaware of the advances that have been made in pushing the Rabies frontier back, it is not that long ago that it was expected that it would reach the channel port about now where as the reality is that in Europe that frontier is receding, though both the general vacination of pets and moves to eradicat the virus in wild animals as well.

This is taken from the WHO site

Oral immunization of wild carnivores

A trend toward a decline in the number of cases in animals has been reported in many European countries. Some of these countries are now free of rabies such as Belgium, France, Luxembourg and Switzerland. This improvement followed the massive use of the oral immunization technique for foxes and the dispersal over wide areas since 1989 (recent European wildlife rabies cases). Remarkable decreases have also been noted in Canada and Texas (USA), where oral vaccination projects targeting coyotes and foxes, respectively, have been conducted.

http://www.who.int/rabies/animal/en/
 
Table 1. Characteristics of postexposure prophylaxis for patients exposed to confirmed rabies source, Marseille, France, 1994–2005
Date of exposure No. treatments Confirmed source Location of exposure, France
1994 Jul 1 Fox Northeast
1995 Nov 14 Dog* Southeast
1998 May/Jun 2 Dog† Southeast
2004 Aug 3 Dog‡ Southwest
*Imported from Burkina Faso.
†Unknown origin; rabid strain close to Egyptian isolates.
‡Imported from Morocco (187 treatments were given in France; most in Bordeaux Centre).

This is info from a report "Rabies Postexposure Prophylaxis,
Marseille, France, 1994–2005"

So it's not just the land borders in NE France, dogs get imported from North Africa.

OK FRance has been fairly successful in eradicating rabies, but, France is still attached by land to the rest of EuroAsia and animals don't recognise borders.

I remember that when the Pet Passport system went through Parliament it was someone in the House of Lords who proposed the additional treatment for ticks and worms as an amendment, in effect doing the usual government thing of gold plating everything. Having said that, I remember that my vet at the time was in complete agreement. Getting the treatment done by a French Vet in the 24- 48 hour period prior to leaving France is no big deal. I used to live in the South of France and travelled with 2 dogs on a number of occasions.

Because the UK is Rabies Free there is NO requirement to have a pet innoculated against rabies as a matter of course (as is in say France). It is ONLY when a Pet Passport is required that the innoculation is done. By using a limited number of carriers then at least the documentation can be checked.

If you want a 'free for all', then the only way is to require ALL pets to be innoculated against rabies, whether they would travel outside the UK or not. In France it is mandatory that your dog is innoculated every 12 months. I know, I lived there. So, just because a relative few boat owners want to take there pets back and forth over the channel freely with no checks, the whole of the UK has to have their pets innoculated. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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By using a limited number of carriers then at least the documentation can be checked.



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I think in reality this is where we differ the most, as I believe that the impact of this is in reality to remove surveillance from the 'unapproved' routes on the basis all the resposible people will use the limited routes offered. Realit is that those who wish to avoid the regulations can do so easily and are unlikely to be caught and the first we will know is an outbreak of rabies.

I also believe the way to make the maximum numbers obey the rules is to make the rules both easy to comply with, and obviously sensible. Foe example if tick and worm treatment is so good why not make it compulsory for animals who don't leave the country,
 
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