Tack or Gybe ?

Depending on the boat, I might not want to be handing sails in the rough water, it might be easier and safer to run down into the lee of something first. If it's easy to whack a couple of reefs in, perhaps I'd do that. Maybe the quicker you u-turn the better. Maybe it's the eureka moment when I suddenly like roller reefing mains?
 
Tack every time

From hard on the wind , pay off slightly to increase boat speed, with most boats this should get you enable you to tack through the wind. Let off the main as soon as you are through the wind to avoid being flattened when the boat is hardly moving on the new tack.
To try to gybe is complicated, first we would have to release the main to be able to bear away much in heavy wind, as we come around to the run haul it back again to control the gybe.. in the mean time the jib has wrapped it self around the forestay or the loose sheet has caught on a deck cleat.
 
Johnphilip has beaten me to it in respect of bearing away to a scorching reach first, then a crash tack with jib aback till the last minute, hopefully its a blade or well rolled by now?
Masthead rig with inline spreaders is a problem if there is no main present, bad pumping can occur,bring back the spinnaker uphaul via a block to a winch and tension, ignore the wrap across the face of the mast.
Even if you do get a knockdown in tacking, with the washboards in place and everybody on short tethers, the boat will recover in seconds.
Bergstrom type rigs are more forgiving of not having a main in place, but I expect in many boats the babystay would be trying to uproot itself from the deck unless there were two forward lowers.
Modern fixed gas strut kickers are a real danger in these situations as with just a handy billy type, a weak strop can be inserted at the mast foot, a breakage of this item removing much of the destructive force of an untimely or uncontrolled gybe.
There! I've stuck my neck out, but at least I'm not in the Lounge!!!
 
Under the conditions described my choice would almost certainly be to tack, and if the boat was known for stalling in irons and my last 2 did not do this, then start the engine to keep headway on through the tack, this is not about being a roughie toughie sailor it is about carrying out a manoeuvre safely
 
Spyro said:
why would you sheet in before gybing. Normally I would ease the main before gybing to keep speed up and reduce apparent wind. If you sheet in before gybing you will put the boat on her side as you bear away. NO??

Otherwise a tack is much safer.
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On a planing dinghy or very fast keelboat you gybe at top speed, without sheeting in the main - aim to do so as you are planing/surfing fastest, as this reduces the apparent wind. Try it in a typical bigger cruiser though that won't plane or really surf that fast and you ask for a broken boom, gooseneck, etc. The forces involved get too big for dinghy-style gybes. You need to sheet in quite a bit, and play out the mainsheet with at least one turn round a winch as the boom goes across to cushion the shock loads on the gear. Unfortunately the typical AWB setup of wheel steering and mainsheet on coachroof makes this very difficult to do single-handed or without a competent crew member.

Assuming it's a typical cruiser and that you need to turn 180 degrees from close-hauled and not just go onto a run, there is a lot to be said for the suggestion of dropping the main first into stackpack, putting single lashing round it to keep it more or less under control, then either tack, backing the jib to shove the bow round fast, or bear away keeping the jib in for while to do the same.
 
Woodlouse said:
I would ease the main as I bore off onto a run and then haul the main in before putting the stern through the wind. Having the boom swing overhead uncontrolled is rather alarming I find.
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that's what I meant. Didn't think I needed to mention hauling in the main, of course I wouldn't let it crash over.
 
To get onto a reciprocal of my previous course?

Tack and then ease sheets, and yes on the top of a wave. In wind that strong gybing is actually verging on dangerous.

Not reciprocal but downwind on same 'tack'? Big ease, best on a crest.

Edit: Not in a planing boat with 'manual tilt control' (bodies). Look for speed under control. If you're on the plane dw, quick flip of sails is dead easy and best. Tack would be wet and unnecessary. If under upwind canvas, and on a displ hull, tack or ease.
 
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Just a thought for you guys, you are all saying about reducing sail area for coming home...

If hard on the wind unless blowing 8+ (which I have not tried, yet).

I would expect to making 5-6 knots plus to windward. This will increase my apparent wind speed by about 5 knots. On the other hand going down wind I would expect my boat speed to be 7 knots+

So given a F6-7, (27 knots ish) I would have 32 ish upwind and only 20ish down wind... On our old 3/4 tonner upwind we would be double reefed with no 3 or worker...

Down wind we would easily carry a single reef and no 3 or worker with 20 knots of apparent wind. So its either shake a reef out, change head sails or I am starting to think about a small spinnaker for breezy down wind passages.

Ok true survival conditions maybe different but in conditions above we find she is much more control able being sailed that little bit harder..

Of course each boat has its way....
 
Why didn't I think?

onesea said:
Just a thought for you guys, you are all saying about reducing sail area for coming home...

If hard on the wind unless blowing 8+ (which I have not tried, yet).

I would expect to making 5-6 knots plus to windward. This will increase my apparent wind speed by about 5 knots. On the other hand going down wind I would expect my boat speed to be 7 knots+

So given a F6-7, (27 knots ish) I would have 32 ish upwind and only 20ish down wind... On our old 3/4 tonner upwind we would be double reefed with no 3 or worker...

Down wind we would easily carry a single reef and no 3 or worker with 20 knots of apparent wind. So its either shake a reef out, change head sails or I am starting to think about a small spinnaker for breezy down wind passages.
Ok true survival conditions maybe different but in conditions above we find she is much more control able being sailed that little bit harder..

Of course each boat has its way....
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Of course you are right, I thought something odd about the "reduce sail" posts but hesitated to query the wisdom of the Forum.
As you say the opposite is the case, as you approach a leeward mark to turn onto the beat, that's when you want to reef.
 
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
you are sailing close-hauled, hard against high wind and big waves and you want to turn back
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johnphilip said:
Of course you are right, I thought something odd about the "reduce sail" posts but hesitated to query the wisdom of the Forum.
As you say the opposite is the case, as you approach a leeward mark to turn onto the beat, that's when you want to reef.
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Presumably onto a run.

Still sticking with the suggestion of reducing sail.

Why in heavens name you'd want to goosewing down wind in the conditions described above is beyond me.

Trying not to crash gybe the boom accidentally, running fast away from the weather, and balancing the genoa is way too dangerous for me.

No main ... an infinitely adjustable genoa for speed ... comfortable ... safe.

Each to his own I guess.
 
johnphilip said:
Of course you are right, I thought something odd about the "reduce sail" posts but hesitated to query the wisdom of the Forum.
As you say the opposite is the case, as you approach a leeward mark to turn onto the beat, that's when you want to reef.
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Nothing odd about the reduce sail posts. If you were racing, or in one hell of a hurry then you'd reef, and unreef depending on whether you're going up wind or down, but when cruising personally I wouldn't bother shaking out a reef for what would probably be a quick down wind leg anyway. Far too many boats have lost their masts because they forget how windy it is when running, then they harden up or tack and suddenly it's all over.
 
Already reefed?

Woodlouse said:
Nothing odd about the reduce sail posts. If you were racing, or in one hell of a hurry then you'd reef, and unreef depending on whether you're going up wind or down, but when cruising personally I wouldn't bother shaking out a reef for what would probably be a quick down wind leg anyway. Far too many boats have lost their masts because they forget how windy it is when running, then they harden up or tack and suddenly it's all over.
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The point that I think onesail and I were making is that surely bashing to windward you would have already reduced sail to suit the apparent wind and turning downwind that rig would be more controlable.
If you have full main flogging then surely yes reduce it as it is easier to do so going to windward. I would not however drop the main as it helps push the boat through a tack.
 
johnphilip said:
The point that I think onesail and I were making is that surely bashing to windward you would have already reduced sail to suit the apparent wind and turning downwind that rig would be more controlable.
If you have full main flogging then surely yes reduce it as it is easier to do so going to windward. I would not however drop the main as it helps push the boat through a tack.
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Thats true enough. I didn't mention reefing in my initial response because under the circumstances I would probably have already done so. Onesea seems to be suggesting increasing sail after turning in order to make best speed.

Anyway, I do agree that it's not the best idea to drop the main, especially if you want to then tack.
 
I am suggesting increasing sail, to make a good speed. This might not be hull speed but a good speed.

My last boat a Trident 24, in windy conditions when turning down wind I often unrolled a bit more headsail. This made sailing easier, I kept her just below hull speed. Not to the point she was fighting hard to maintain course, to the point there was a healthy flow over the rudder to maintain easy steerage.

With the new to me boat she has got a tough luff so head sail changes are required. So often the easiest way to do this is to take a reef out of the main.

IMHO most boats are comfiest when sailing at around 70-80% of the full hull speed any less and they Wollow anymore and they get "twitchy".

I learned this the hard way on one potter about, it was blowing a F5-6 and we had no 3 up only. When I turned to come back it was a horrible motion, 3 of my crew all felt sick. I should of stuck a double reefed main up it would of steadied her given more steerage and provided a better sail.

It seems one of the pleasures of a light (4 Ton, 35' boat), that you need to be pro active in your sailing. For that reason she is not the boat I would sail long distances, but great for what we use her for...

Each boat has its own level...
 
I wouldn't reef either, the main sail helps to balance the boat, I might even unroll some genoa to get home quicker depending on how much was rolled away for the beat.

We never sail dead downwind anyway (unless it's down a river) it's faster, more comfortable and more enjoyable to sail the angles off the wind, but in such conditions tacking around rather than gybing. Going dead down wind in a Sadler 32 in a roll fest best left to those with iron stomachs.
 
Ok, I'd def reef more in a blow when turning downwind:

1 easier to get it down the track facing the wind

2 at some stage we are gone be on a reach, that be fast, like 10+ not what I would want turning round on top of waves.

3 with a furling headsail I can alter course and control the speed.

Can always pull it back up / out later, stay in control, depends upon the boat.
 
It depends a little on the place you are running back into.
Will it offer space and shelter to take the main down in the lee of something, or will you be barging into a crowded place struggling with the main among the moorings?
 
Personally I'd keep the main up until just approach the harbour, engine on, tack around go hove to, drop the main, ease the sheet to take the jib across, bit of power from the engine and furl away the genoa...All before getting anywhere near crowded moorings :)
 
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