T2L document

[Heckler]

After reading about issues that can arise with some officials asking for a copy of a T2L I bit the bullet and asked the RYA for a pack to apply for one. It arrived, I filled it in and sent it off. Three days later it came back duly stamped.
Interesting that in essence, IMHO, it is a proof of VAT paid.
For those worrying about a lack of VAT paperwork, by sending off for one of these you end up with official proof that HMRC UK accept that the boat is EU sourced. HMRC are in effect giving you a piece of paper stamped by them, accepted by EU officials, that says that HMRC accept that the boat is EU sourced and by definition VAT paid.
Stu

 

[RichardS]

I suspect that all of us Brits with a boat in or near Croatia all obtained our T2Ls a couple of years ago. Thankfully they never lapse.

Richard

 

[Tranona]

After reading about issues that can arise with some officials asking for a copy of a T2L I bit the bullet and asked the RYA for a pack to apply for one. It arrived, I filled it in and sent it off. Three days later it came back duly stamped.
Interesting that in essence, IMHO, it is a proof of VAT paid.
For those worrying about a lack of VAT paperwork, by sending off for one of these you end up with official proof that HMRC UK accept that the boat is EU sourced. HMRC are in effect giving you a piece of paper stamped by them, accepted by EU officials, that says that HMRC accept that the boat is EU sourced and by definition VAT paid.
Stu

No it does not - at least from HMRC point of view. To get one you need proof of VAT paid anyway, so it is not a substitute.

It is only issued as a sop. If the chargeable event occurred in the UK then VAT is nothing to do with the Portuguese (or any other customs). Your original VAT receipt is sufficient proof.

Classic example of EU states making up their own rules.

 

[Heckler]

No it does not - at least from HMRC point of view. To get one you need proof of VAT paid anyway, so it is not a substitute.

It is only issued as a sop. If the chargeable event occurred in the UK then VAT is nothing to do with the Portuguese (or any other customs). Your original VAT receipt is sufficient proof.

Classic example of EU states making up their own rules.

Your last para is the issue, when the man in black sticks a lien on your boat you can argue all you like but he is the man! Nortada and his forum will tell you about the owners with liens stuck on their boats! He was also telling me that you dont need to send in you registration or bill of sale if you approach HRMC in Salford direct and they will issue one. However I took the RYA advice and sent mine in.
My hypothosis still stands, if the HMRC will issue a T2L on the what the RYA calls "evidence" that the boat is of EU origin, and as you yourself say that a Bill of Sale proves that the "event" occured under the juridstriction of HMRC, then its fait accompli. It dodges that issue of the foreign official not recognising that a British Bill of Sale ptoves that it is nothing to do with them. It is in fact, I think, a VAT paid certificate in the eyes of that foreign official. The evidence coming from Portugal is that the T2L is accepted as such!
Stu
PS I voted Brexit!

 

[sailaboutvic]

Please correct me if I am wrong .
I through TL2 was nothing to do with private boat VAT , more to do with export of goods ?

 

[RichardS]

I thought TL2 was nothing to do with private boat VAT ......

You're quite right Vic .... the only reason that Croatian-based boat owners might well have applied for a T2L is that some Croatian customs offices started asking for them as proof of VAT being paid. My purchase invoice has always been accepted so I don't think I've ever been asked for the T2L but as it was free and me being a Yorkshireman, I thought I might as well get it.

Richard

 

[AndrewB]

No it does not - at least from HMRC point of view. To get one you need proof of VAT paid anyway, so it is not a substitute.

VAT evidence is not necessarily essential. There is no documentary proof that VAT was paid on my yacht, built in the UK in 1988 (and, incidentally, not in the EU on 31.12.1992), but nevertheless I had no difficulty getting a T2L from HMRC.

I do agree though that it reads like it is evidence of VAT liability having been settled in the UK.

Incidentally, Croatian customs officials have not been in the least interested in it.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Please correct me if I am wrong .
I through TL2 was nothing to do with private boat VAT , more to do with export of goods ?

Yes. It is an EU customs union form issued to prove the origin and status of goods being imported into any individual EU country.

Cars, boats or planes are "MoT" (means of transport). These can be temporarily imported from one EU country to another for up to 180 days without documentation. Airplanes have a shorter stay limit . . .

If staying longer than 180 days, the new "host" country is entitled to require the MoT to be imported. Import can be temporary (keep original registration) or permanent (re-register in new country). Either way, "import" requires documentation, and for the MoT to meet all local rules for equipment carried, circulation taxes to be paid, etc.

The import documentation, arguably, should not apply to MoT travelling as owner's chattels. But many countries are aware that (unlike their own country) UK registration does not imply title, nor VAT paid, and they can't be back traced.

So they demand a shipping document endorsed by a recognised UK customs office. An empty box on a page proves free circulation if the letters "T2L" are entered. The customs office will require proof . . . either of VAT payment, or exemption, to endorse this. HMRC are most helpful about issuing this endorsement.

Most EU countries require import of cars at 180 days. For boats, some countires do, and some don't. Portugal and Croatia did. Croatia required it on first entry . . . but they had lots of non-VAT paid boats in the docks when they joined the EU. I suspect that at some stage this will be relaxed.

Lots of detail on my web site. Just google "jimb vat"

JimB

 

[GrahamM376]

Most EU countries require import of cars at 180 days. For boats, some countires do, and some don't. Portugal and Croatia did. Croatia required it on first entry . . . but they had lots of non-VAT paid boats in the docks when they joined the EU. I suspect that at some stage this will be relaxed.
Lots of detail on my web site. Just google "jimb vat" JimB

Is this historical? In 11 years here, although a tiny minority have been asked for T2L, have never heard of anyone having to import a boat.

 

[nortada]

Is this historical? In 11 years here, although a tiny minority have been asked for T2L, have never heard of anyone having to import a boat.

Agree.

Argue as much as you like but the key proven facts are:

1. In Portugal you may be requested to produce a T2L within 30 days and a lien placed on your boat.
2. Provided you show good intent to comply, the Portuguese Authorities will become more relaxed.
3. Without any supporting documentation, HMCR will quickly provide you with a T2L.
4. Having seen your T2L (or a photocopy), satisfied that you have complied with their request, Portuguese Customs will wave you on your way.

Currently the only problem is, rather than your boats location, HMRC will only send your T2L to your U.K. address (at their expense). Possibly a SAE would get around this.

Facts finished, now please continue to argue the whys and wherefores to you hearts content.

PS I would like to hear of the Portuguese Customs response to, "Sod off, I'm British so I am not playing your silly games!"

 

[sailaboutvic]

The really fact is everywhere in Europe you could be asked to prove your boat is VAT paid ,
Most of us ( well over 28 years in and around the Atlantic coast and the Med ) have never been asked for prove of VAT . Even in Portugal where I been board around 20 times over the years .
It's good advise for everyone to carry doc to prove this .
In our case we always had original document and as far as I am awhere that good enough in any country .
TL2 started in Croatia some years back , with wishpers that everyone will be asked for it , the wishpers by the way started here on this site , since then I entered Croatia twice and not been asked .
Just received an email from a mate who's in Portuage who reads these posting and he informed me he been boarded three time this year and not been ask for a TL2 .
I guess it the luck of the draw if you asked or not .
If TL2 can be gotten easy as if it been suggested here , then I guess there no harm in getting one ,
I still will carry on keeping my VAT prove paid invoices to hand .

 

[nortada]

Please correct me if I am wrong .
I through TL2 was nothing to do with private boat VAT , more to do with export of goods ?

Agree, unfortunately, right or wrong, some administrations do not see it that way.

When in Rome ........

 

[nortada]

If TL2 can be gotten easy as if it been suggested here , then I guess there no harm in getting one ,
I still will carry on keeping my VAT prove paid invoices to hand .

Not if, not suggested.

Fact, at present, if you HMRC a F88 they will frank it and return it to your U.K. address, free of charge as a T2L.

However, it is anybodies guess how long the current situation will last. HMRC, rightly see that, for them,this as a pointless exercise but, to get UK yotties out of a hole, they are prepared to play along, even though it involves them in extra work and their department in extra expense.

One wonders how long HMRC's patience will last?

More than likely, there will come a point that HMRC will say enough is enough are refuse to continue this rather silly charade. Then British Flagged vessels, (and others) could find themselves in a potentially expensive hole.

An interesting aside, Irish Flagged Vessels have also been requested to produce a T2L so a Irish Flagged vessel requested a T2L. Irish Customs refused but suggested the owner contacted HMRC. HMRC confirmed they could only issue a T2L to a U.K. address. The boat owner, has friends in the north, who tendered the C88 from their home address, he subsequently got his T2L!

Like Stu, glad I have got my T2L.

 

[Heckler]

Not if, not suggested.

Fact, at present, if you HMRC a F88 they will frank it and return it to your U.K. address, free of charge as a T2L.

However, it is anybodies guess how long the current situation will last. HMRC, rightly see that, for them,this as a pointless exercise but, to get UK yotties out of a hole, they are prepared to play along, even though it involves them in extra work and their department in extra expense.

One wonders how long HMRC's patience will last?

More than likely, there will come a point that HMRC will say enough is enough are refuse to continue this rather silly charade. Then British Flagged vessels, (and others) could find themselves in a potentially expensive hole.

An interesting aside, Irish Flagged Vessels have also been requested to produce a T2L so a Irish Flagged vessel requested a T2L. Irish Customs refused but suggested the owner contacted HMRC. HMRC confirmed they could only issue a T2L to a U.K. address. The boat owner, has friends in the north, who tendered the C88 from their home address, he subsequently got his T2L!

Like Stu, glad I have got my T2L.

I think my view is that for the little effort involved that if you are overseas or are thinking of going overseas, then get one before the HRMC get peed off the same as they did before and start refusing. I also am still of the opinion that if someone hasnt got proof of vat paid then this is a way to get a piece of paper that will satisfy Portuguese, Croatian and Malta officials.
Stu

 

[nortada]

Spoke with HMRC this morning and they advised that they no longer provided hard-copy C88/T2L.

However the form can still be downloaded and printed off from the following link.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/374245/c88_1-8_.pdf.

They also confirmed for private sailing vessels you need only to submit Page 4 of the 8 pages.

 

[GTom]

I was wondering, is T2L linked to registration by any means?

 

[Mistroma]

I was wondering, is T2L linked to registration by any means?

Well I wrote the HIN on the form followed by part 1 number and others entered their SSR number when sending it off to be stamped. Just a means of identifying the boat as the name wouldn't be sufficient.

I imagine you might get it stamped with just the HIN as there isn't any legal requirement to register in UK (though it would make life difficult abroad at some point). Never heard of anyone trying that approach.

I'm guessing that there isn't a link in an electronic system between T2L and reg. number.

 

[nortada]

Well I wrote the HIN on the form followed by part 1 number and others entered their SSR number when sending it off to be stamped. Just a means of identifying the boat as the name wouldn't be sufficient.

I imagine you might get it stamped with just the HIN as there isn't any legal requirement to register in UK (though it would make life difficult abroad at some point). Never heard of anyone trying that approach.

I'm guessing that there isn't a link in an electronic system between T2L and reg. number.

Agree

 

[sailaboutvic]

Well I wrote the HIN on the form followed by part 1 number and others entered their SSR number when sending it off to be stamped. Just a means of identifying the boat as the name wouldn't be sufficient.

I imagine you might get it stamped with just the HIN as there isn't any legal requirement to register in UK (though it would make life difficult abroad at some point). Never heard of anyone trying that approach.

I'm guessing that there isn't a link in an electronic system between T2L and reg. number.

Firstly thanks Mike , this guy folks did it all for me , what a gent ,
Now TL2 my option is it was never any used unless you was visiting Croatia where they seen to have got it on there head you needed one , although the three season we spend there no one asked , luckily as we didn't have one any way
Now once we leave the EU , it seems it's going to be a waste of paper .
Your option guys .

 

[Graham376]

Now once we leave the EU , it seems it's going to be a waste of paper . Your option guys .

For visiting boats, I think you're correct but, for those of us EU based, it's (wrongly) being used as as proof of VAT status and that the boat is free to roam the EU. After B day, we will still need to prove VAT has been paid PLUS proof that we're in the EU at point of exit so, could be a good idea to have one.