T2L Document after Brexit?

[Tim Good]

I was reading up about free movement after Brexit and I noted this comment:

"If your boat has the customs status of Union goods (Union status) and is in a port or the internal or territorial waters of the EU27 at the point in time where the UK leaves the EU, our understanding is that it should retain its Union status and should continue to be entitled to free movement. Means of proving Union status are detailed in the Union Customs Code Implementing Regulations. Of the documents listed, an invoice or a paper T2L are the most suitable for recreational boats."

I have an original receipt but thought perhaps a T2L might add additional ammunition in my arsenal. What says the group and does anyone have any experience of how to apply for the T2L?

 

[Mistroma]

It has been discussed at length here.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?514505-VAT-Status-post-Brexit/page11

I posted a link to details supplied by Nortada and link to a PDF form which has codes required for different vessel types.

Most accepted it was simple,cheap and would do no harm. It might be useful and worth having even if it's never used.

 

[Tim Good]

It has been discussed at length here.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?514505-VAT-Status-post-Brexit/page11

I posted a link to details supplied by Nortada and link to a PDF form which has codes required for different vessel types.

Most accepted it was simple,cheap and would do no harm. It might be useful and worth having even if it's never used.

Thanks for that! Appreciated.

 

[nortada]

It has been discussed at length here.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?514505-VAT-Status-post-Brexit/page11

I posted a link to details supplied by Nortada and link to a PDF form which has codes required for different vessel types.

Most accepted it was simple,cheap and would do no harm. It might be useful and worth having even if it's never used.

Have had a T2L for a number of years.:encouragement:

Don't forget to enclose a SAE with your application.

 

[LadyInBed]

Don't forget to enclose a SAE with your application.

You can if you want, I didn't and it still came back in a few days all stamped up :encouragement:

 

[nortada]

You can if you want, I didn't and it still came back in a few days all stamped up :encouragement:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?514505-VAT-Status-post-Brexit/page4&p=6706207#post6706207

Think Mistroma may disagree.:encouragement:

 

[RupertW]

But as we know from the guidance and previous threads the T2L completely pointless in a no deal scenario as the VAT status will remain either in the EU or UK but not both - and depending simply on where the boat is on the day we leave.

 

[Pavalijo]

But as we know from the guidance and previous threads the T2L completely pointless in a no deal scenario as the VAT status will remain either in the EU or UK but not both - and depending simply on where the boat is on the day we leave.

To OP,
Is your “receipt” a true VAT invoice, having VAT number of the vendor and the VAT rate and amount shown? Mine showed the vendor’s VAT number and an amount “including VAT” which might not cut it as a VAT invoice with a difficult official as it did not specify the VAT rate or amount! Therefore I obtained the T2L as a back up. HMRC obviously accepted this document and I was much relieved. I certainly do not regard this as “pointless” in my case.
My boat will be in the EU on Brexit day and I want to maintain EU VAT paid status.
I believe that HMRC will not be able to issue a T2L after Brexit day, so you need to hope there is an extension and I suggest you make your application immediately. Mine came back inside 10 days.

 

[RupertW]

To OP,
Is your “receipt” a true VAT invoice, having VAT number of the vendor and the VAT rate and amount shown? Mine showed the vendor’s VAT number and an amount “including VAT” which might not cut it as a VAT invoice with a difficult official as it did not specify the VAT rate or amount! Therefore I obtained the T2L as a back up. HMRC obviously accepted this document and I was much relieved. I certainly do not regard this as “pointless” in my case.
My boat will be in the EU on Brexit day and I want to maintain EU VAT paid status.
I believe that HMRC will not be able to issue a T2L after Brexit day, so you need to hope there is an extension and I suggest you make your application immediately. Mine came back inside 10 days.

You will (if the guidance is correct) be EU VAT paid if your boat is in the EU with or without at T2L and will lose your UK VAT status immediately and permanently at that point too - even with a T2L as that is an historic document from pre-Brexit.

 

[macd]

...and will lose your UK VAT status immediately and permanently at that point too.

I'm not so sure (although putting a boat on a hunch is no small thing). UK boats which have become EU27 boats in this way may be eligible for returning goods relief. Would it be wildly unreasonable for UK residents to expect their government to clarify this? On the evidence, it clearly would. WABOT

And, contrary to what has been the perceived policy for many years regarding returning goods relief on boats, HMRC's NIRU (National Import Reliefs Unit) recently wrote this in response to a private query:
"As a private individual, the 3 year rule does not affect you as this is a commercial matter; therefore the 3 year rule would be waived automatically."

 

[Chris_Robb]

I'm not so sure (although putting a boat on a hunch is no small thing). UK boats which have become EU27 boats in this way may be eligible for returning goods relief. Would it be wildly unreasonable for UK residents to expect their government to clarify this? On the evidence, it clearly would. WABOT

And, contrary to what has been the perceived policy for many years regarding returning goods relief on boats, HMRC's NIRU (National Import Reliefs Unit) recently wrote this in response to a private query:
"As a private individual, the 3 year rule does not affect you as this is a commercial matter; therefore the 3 year rule would be waived automatically."

Totally Agree with you Mac.
The advice received at the CA - inline with other similar letters says:
After the UK's withdrawal from the EU or the end of the transition period in case a Withdrawal Agreement with a transition period is concluded, in general, any goods in the customs territory of the UK will lose their Union status and will become UK goods.

Note the specific reference “in the customs territory of the UK” Note also the caveat “in general”.

However you can interpret this to mean that if your vessel is in Turkey or anywhere in the world other than the UK, you will retain your Unions Goods Status.

You will need to think forward to the effect afetr exit though more.

One person I know is about to accept delivery of a yacht from Bavaria. Its almost finished but wont be by 29th of March. The question is, do they make sure they pay VAT with the sale completed before B-day (in the factory), They have at the moment nominated it to be UK VAT and take "delivery" of the yacht before that date in the factory - paying UK Tax. They could easily nominate to be German VAT.

I would say that they should: Because if they miss the boat and pay tax after Brexit, the alternative scenarios would be:

1. Pay UK VAT - become UK Goods and rely on temporary Import to the EU. (reduced sale value and restricted freedom of movement)

2. Pay EU VAT (in Germany or Greece). The boat will be delivered to Slovenia and sailed to Greece. You will have Union Goods status, but NOT UK status. This will mean that you can keep in and sell it in the EU for ever, but you will NOT ever be able to import it back to the UK even under TI as you are a resident of the UK. VAt will have to be paid again.

So by ensuring VAT is paid before Brexit and being in the EU27, they will have freedom as Union goods in the EU 27, and also return the boat to the UK. There is no way the UK would exclude returning goods to the UK which were bought under the old EU28 rules. I will eat my hat!

 

[nortada]

As would be expected, this thread concentrates on boats, but one could assume the same rules will apply to all VAT liable vehicles in the EU or the UK on Brexit Day - trucks, cars, caravans, motor-homes, big ships & aircraft and I am sure I must have missed some.

To this background, modest private yachts are going to be very small beer.

 

[Graham376]

But as we know from the guidance and previous threads the T2L completely pointless in a no deal scenario as the VAT status will remain either in the EU or UK but not both - and depending simply on where the boat is on the day we leave.

Correct but - just having a boat in the EU won't give it EU VAT status. As is the case now, if requested on inspection it will still need its paper trail to prove VAT has been paid and I wouldn't be surprised if we face increased document demands.

 

[macd]

I wouldn't be surprised if we face increased document demands.

Just out of interest, who's "we"?

 

[Graham376]

Just out of interest, who's "we"?

Those of us based in the EU.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Correct but - just having a boat in the EU won't give it EU VAT status. As is the case now, if requested on inspection it will still need its paper trail to prove VAT has been paid and I wouldn't be surprised if we face increased document demands.

Having your yacht in the EU 27 on the date of leaving will mean it will REMAIN Union Goods. That seems to be totally clear. Once B-day is past, it will need your original VAT Invoice, and importantly - proof that it was in the EU on the day of Brexit. This is vital evidence and I personally would get it notarized and filed very carefully with the ships papers.

 

[nortada]

Having your yacht in the EU 27 on the date of leaving will mean it will REMAIN Union Goods. That seems to be totally clear. Once B-day is past, it will need your original VAT Invoice, and importantly - proof that it was in the EU on the day of Brexit. This is vital evidence and I personally would get it notarized and filed very carefully with the ships papers.

‘seems to be totally clear.’ Or just more speculation?

Unless the notary was involved in the VAT procedure (very probably in a different jurisdiction) how does getting the documentation notarized work?

Doesn’t prove anything; certainly not the validity of the original documents!

 

[macd]

Unless the notary was involved in the VAT procedure (very probably in a different jurisdiction) how does getting the documentation notarized work?

Doesn’t prove anything; certainly not the validity of the original documents!

Read it again. I suspect Chris wasn't suggesting that the original VAT invoice be notarized, but the evidence for location and date at the time of Brexit. That would certainly be possible to notarize if one chose. Personally I wouldn't bother: no-one has ever suggested that proof of location for 'deemed VAT-paid' boats should be notarized.

 

[vyv_cox]

My application for a T2L goes in the post this morning. I was most grateful for the CA website advice on filling in the application form, as it is far from obvious. Hopefully in a few days I shall receive the new document.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Read it again. I suspect Chris wasn't suggesting that the original VAT invoice be notarized, but the evidence for location and date at the time of Brexit. That would certainly be possible to notarize if one chose. Personally I wouldn't bother: no-one has ever suggested that proof of location for 'deemed VAT-paid' boats should be notarized.

Mac and Nortada - I would just have the proof of your vessel being in the EU 27 on Brexit day, notarised or just signed by the Marina saying it was in the marina.

My thoughts are ONLY for documentation at the eventual sale of the yacht, when VAT is always an potential objection. This just attempts to knock that objection on the head.