Swopping Halyards About...

[Little Rascal]

Swapping Halyards About...

My main and jib halyards come out of opposite sides of the mast, main to starboard and jib to port. The boat is a small yacht/keelboat with hanked on headsails. Up 'til now I've worked them from the base of the mast and cleated them on the mast itself. But I can't get enough luff tension in the main.

There is only one small winch and though I believe it was originally for the main halyard it's now on the jib side. If you can only have one of them on a winch I'd go for the main. Does that sound right?

I want to swap the halyards over 'cause I'm re-organising my deck and leading everything back to the cockpit. Is it ok to just swap them in there box sheaves or do I need to pull one of them out and re-moused it do ya reckon?

 

[Lakesailor]

Swap them at the mast base. If it doesn't work that's a job for the next time you have the mast down. On the plus side how much interference can two lines crossing in 20ft create?

 

[Little Rascal]

Well that's what I was thinking... but the mast is down at the moment and I won't find out if it works till it's up (though that's not difficult to do.) I just wondered if anyone else had done this and had any problems?

 

[bignick]

Cunningham?

 

[scottie]

Main should be on stb side so if you are hove to whilst reeling you are on stb tack stand on vessel etc as I understand.

 

[Lakesailor]

I have found that on an 19ft boat you can do it all from the companionway anyway.

 

[VicS]

If they have already just been swapped over from one side to the other and you swap them back again you might end up with them twisted round each other inside the mast, not just crossing. Make sure they run free of each other if you do swap them.

Main on the starboard side is the traditional arrangement. You will be nominally on starboard tack and therefore the stand on vessel while hoisting/lowering/reefing.

I think I would use the winch for the headsail rather than for the main.
You should be able to swig the halyard and surge it round a cleat to get enough tension in a small boat

 

[William_H]

Swapping halyards

A said it might be OK the problem being that you may cause a cross over of the 2 one against the other. I fyou do it may not matter of course. If you can see inside the mast from the bottom witha torch you may be able to see how they run.
You need tension on both halyards. Although it is often easier to raise the main up higher than necessary then pull it down tight with a cunningham tackle or on some a movable gooseneck. The main needs no stretch as the load of the main sheets goes on the halyard.
Jib tension needs to be put on unless again you use a down haul from the tack.
A small winch is not that expensive and I would advocate when you move the halyards to the cokpit that you consider a winch each side. (I bought another pair of winches years ago when I found them cheap and now have 4 halyard winches on a 21fter. Great for reefing cunningham outhaul and halyards. You mostly leave the sheets on the winch.
http://www.whitworths.com.au have a Cleveco 14 winch for Aus $90 (less 10% tax) that is a lot cheaper than a rope clutch. That is about 54 squid to you plus duty etc
good luck olewill

 

[Little Rascal]

I have found that on an 19ft boat you can do it all from the companionway anyway.

Lakie, yes I can do this too but the only way to get sufficient tension is to get up on the coachroof, which is the point of leading everything back. It won't matter which side things are, the boat is only 6ft beam and everything is within reach

You should be able to swig the halyard and surge it round a cleat to get enough tension in a small boat

I can, but at the expense of the skin off my knuckles (I now have a blood stain on the main )

Cunningham?

Yes, I have and use the cunningham but I still need to get more tension in the luff first. I can also move the gooseneck down but it's a bit worn and unless it's in it's normal position it tends to pop off at unexpected moments!

Will, new winches are out of the question at the moment (perhaps later when I have a few more essentials sorted) The Antal 6 composite is probably the equivalent small winch over here. At that price I'm almost tempted to order from Marine Megastore

I had thought of putting a 180 deg turning block on the main halyard and taking both back to the winch but I'm a bit wary of the extra friction (?)

I have a spinlock SUA jammer and cheek block to lead the genny halyard back - I reckon I can get enough tension on that without a winch.

 

[Thistle]

I had thought of putting a 180 deg turning block on the main halyard and taking both back to the winch but I'm a bit wary of the extra friction (?)

Can you take them both out of the same side of the mast? Both could then use the single winch you have. I have this system and it is little problem. You just have to remember which halyard is which.

 

[Little Rascal]

Can you take them both out of the same side of the mast? Both could then use the single winch you have. I have this system and it is little problem. You just have to remember which halyard is which.

I suppose I could but that would mean a bigger hole and a new double box sheave...

 

[Tranona]

Common on a small boat like yours to have a downhaul on the sliding gooseneck to tension the main halyard. Using a winch is a bit OTT.

 

[VicS]

I can, but at the expense of the skin off my knuckles

Wimp but you could wear gloves if you are that delicate

 

[flaming]

Common on a small boat like yours to have a downhaul on the sliding gooseneck to tension the main halyard. Using a winch is a bit OTT.

I was thinking something similar. If you're struggling to hoist the main perhaps a concerted effort to tackle the friction that must have built up would be a good plan? Do all the blocks - especially the mashead sheaves - turn freely?

Simply adding a winch without adressing why it's suddenly needed is a little like fitting a turbocharger to your car instead of pumping up your flat tyre!

 

[Little Rascal]

Wimp but you could wear gloves if you are that delicate

Oi! Not so worried about my knuckles, more about leaving my DNA all over my crisp white sails

Flaming, I have replaced some worn sheaves, I'll check the masthead again though. I think it's the luff rope in the groove that's stiff. Any other tips for low friction?

....why it's suddenly needed...

It's just because I'm wanting to hoist it from the cockpit and I think I'll struggle. I can manage it ok stood on the deck but adding another block or too is likely going to make it worse?

BTW I'm not adding a winch - just reorganising to use it effectively. I've managed ok for a season, singlehanding was manageable but does mean leaving the tiller at the crucial moment.

Thanks for the input...

 

[Tranona]

Might be worth considering fitting slides to the luff - much easier to haul. Did that on my old Sea Wych (like Vic's) and never had any trouble getting the main halyard tight. Much easier to drop and stow as well. You will need to fit a pin to the mast gate so the slides don't fall out when you drop.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Having a tight luff on the headsail is more important for pointing than a tight-luffed main. So, I'd leave it how it is, and fit a cunningham in the main, to tighten the luff downwards, rather than upwards.

 

[Lakesailor]

Is it a luff rope or a plastic luff tape? I've had a couple of boats that arrived with shrunken bolt ropes.
You haven't said what your problem is. Is it that the luff is rucked or has creases? Is the bolt rope itself actually tight, but shorter than the sail luff. It's pretty easy to release the rope and re-attach it after stretching the sail out. It does leave a empty gap in the bolt-rope pocket though

Or as you suspect, is it friction? Again a plastic luff tape would be easier to haul up, cost less than £100 to have fitted. Or fit slides as already suggested.

But first, try a silicone spray in the luff groove. Halfords do one for window channels if you can't find a marine one.

Are your halyards stretchy? Even a couple % stretch will amount to quite a bit over a 20ft mast. You are increasing the amount of tension you need to create to both stretch the halyard and then tension the boltrope.

Did you change the pin when you changed the sheaves? Even though they may spin unloaded, they may bind up when under load.

I never found pulling the boom down a problem when working at the mast on sub-20ft boats. If the gooseneck is not reliable, perhaps that is the thing to sort.

 

[Giblets]

Will, new winches are out of the question at the moment (perhaps later when I have a few more essentials sorted) The Antal 6 composite is probably the equivalent small winch over here. At that price I'm almost tempted to order from Marine Megastore

Electric winches on a little boat? - that's posh!

 

[BAtoo]

Follow the KISS principle.
Clean the luff groove.
Lubricate the luff groove with silicon - lots of it.
Check the sheeves run freely when under load.
Dyneema halyard (5mm sufficient for your boat).
No bend on the mast whilst hoisting.
Sweat it up by hand.
Cunningham to tension the luff further.

Simples