Swinging keels- any disadvantages?

[primitiveman]

Looking at buying a Beneteau First 26. Nice boat, but it has a swinging keel, which is hardly necessary in the deep, frigid Clyde.
Are these keels reliable, or is it just another gizmo to fix when it goes wrong? Do they have an adverse effect on stability/seaworthiness/performance to windward?
Would be very interested in the views of m' learned friends.

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[Miker]

My boat is a Beneteau 260 Spirit with a swinging keel. The lifting keel has been of use a few times when touching bottom in Morecambe Bay. However, the downside has been that the winding mechanism has caused problems in that the worm gear has completely unwound and separated a few times, leaving the keel swinging loose. After working out how to winch the keel back up with a system of ropes, chain and blocks and so engage the worm gear mechanism, I had an expensive lift out and replaced the whole mechanism. I suspect, although I could not get confirmation from Beneteau, was that the original winding mechanism was too small for the job. So far the replacement worm gear has not let me down.

My advice would be that if you don't need a swinging keel, don't bother to get one as it is something more that can go wrong.

I can't comment on the handling characteristics as I have not sailed in a fixed keel 260.

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[richardandtracy]

Worm Gear unwound?
Wow & Oh help. It was my understanding of the geometry of a worm that this is impossible - and has some implications for lifting equipment I've designed without ratchet pawls. I'd better stick my nose in a few books to double check my designs.

Regards

Richard


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[snowleopard]

i had a sonata with a swing keel. it consisted of a cast iron plate pivoted within a stub keel. lowering was by gravity and raising bu a rope attached to the bottom corner, passing up through the bottom via a tube open above waterline to a winch.

good points:

shallow draft when you need it.
when you go aground, wind up the keel and carry on
6 ft draft against 4 ft for the fin version so good to windward
low cg when trailing.
able to dry out on legs
the pivot was a 1in dia rod of nylon, totally reliable.

bad points:
rust, muck or stones in the slot prevent it from lowering.
when you release the ratchet on the winch the handle can whip round & break your wrist
difficult to clean & paint inside the slot.
keel could pivot in a knockdown, further reducing righting moment
lowering plate is quite thin and could break
skin fitting for cord can't be closed off in case of leaks

if i hit the bottom the keel would just lift but any system which positively holds the plate down (worm gear etc.) would suffer massive force if you hit something solid. no wonder they break.

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[Miker]

I think that the problem was that the worm gear was too short. After 75 turns the keel still had not hit the stop and the worm gear completely unwound and came apart. The replacement worm gear was definitely longer and after 100 turns the keel comes against the stop and the worm gear lifts in the boat. Also there is now a weld between the rod and the outer housing that stops the worm gear completely unwinding. The original was obviously a design fault, and I am even wondering whether it was for the wrong boat - the 211 having a similar but smaller lifting keel. Beneteau never responded to my somewhat sharp E mails, and the boat was out of its warranty period.

To respond to another post, if I touch bottom the keel pivots back and the winding handle rod kicks up. On clearing, the keel swings back and the rod drops back with a clatter. The noise made bouncing along the sea bed is a timely warning. The worm gear has stood up to it so far, but it is something that I obviously try to avoid doing.

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