Swing Mooring Advice

mtanderso

mtanderso

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I am looking for some advice on mooring my boat - a Bayliner 2455 - to a swing mooring. I have heard that perhaps using a bridle setup could be an option to take the strain of the mooring over the two bow fairleads; however I was wondering if anyone else had any comments on this?
My mooring supplier insists, quite rightly due to insurance reasons, on using 24mm rope for the rode.
Thanks.
 
The actual size of the rode rope is a real problem. It is chaeap and easy for them to supply and insist on thick rope but of course it must suit the fairleads roller and horn cleats. It is not at all reliable to have a thick rope on a small horn cleat. You end up either fitting a bigger cleat or tieing the rope onto the cleat so it won't pop off.
Yes a bridle or at least multiple ropes are far better especially if one takes the load while aother is backup as chafing is your main enemy the one with no load will not chafe until the first has failled completely. Hopefully you will notice by then.
In my case for a trailer sailer I use the eye fitted half way down the bow used for winching the boat onto a trailer. I put a snap shackle through this with a not excessively large rope to the bouy or mooring. The advantage is there is no chafe point and it is in fact imune frrom chafe also by any other boat that may come adrift and rest on my bow. The down side is that this fitting is prone to fatigue from side loads so of course you need a backup rope to a cleat on deck. The attachment on the bow is the first to be removed from the dinghy and the last to be reattached.
In the end it is what ever helps you sleep well at night that is right for you.
good luck olewill
 
Thanks for that - the idea of attaching the mooring to the bow towing eye is definitely worth consideration - certainly a better option than replacing the fairleads & cleats to allow such a large rope to fit! As you say, the risk of chafing is greatly reduced, and from my perspective, if the rode is attached in this manner it avoids the addional risk of chafing on the side of the bow roller and anchor.
Thanks again!
 
What does your insurers say is good enough rope dia?

I can understand the mooring supplier having demands up and including the mooring buoy but he's not the one insuring your boat!

Peter.
 
Bloody insurance companies usually just say that it should be professionally set and inspected. You try getting them to specify anything and they go all silent.

They just want to know there is someone with liability insurance they can claim off.
 
Hi.
The insurance company have not stated that a rope should be any specific diameter - I should probably clarify that. All the insurance company have asked is that the boat is 'locked' to its mooring - something which would be easily done if the bow eye was used.
 
CHAIN CHAIN CHAIN - LONG CHAIN

No it doesnt snatch if you have it attached to big enough buoy and if it is long enough and heavy enough never to go guite taut. If length is a problem, you could put an 'angel' ie a weight half way along. If the heavy chain wont fit over your cleat, shackle a lighter bit as a loop on the end.

Another benefit is when you leave your mooring it wont have ropes floating about, the chain just goes straight down pulling the pickup float tight up to the main bouy.
 
This is a good thread as last year we had maybe a dozen boats break their moorings on the Solway Firth.

It seems the best way for us is:

New shackles on the riser chain every year - with locking wire and threadlock

From the mooring buoy

- two nylon strops run through large diameter plastic pipe to eliminate chafe to two deck cleats.

- a length of chain inside a further plastic pipe to the samson post with a shackle closing the loop.

The chain is slightly longer than the Nylon to allow for it to stretch and for the chain to act as a back - up.

Works well and only takes a couple of minutes to rig up and I sleep well each night not worrying about her.

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
What does your insurers say is good enough rope dia?

I can understand the mooring supplier having demands up and including the mooring buoy but he's not the one insuring your boat!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh how wrong you are, sorry. The mooring contractor is the 'defacto' insurer of the boat.

Why do you think we put bigger ropes than most would think is right? 1 simple reason. Insurance, be they have some or not.

Option 1, Absolutly nothing happens and everyone is fine. Maybe the boat owner thinks "maybe I could have saved a few of quid (and that's about all the money involved most times) and got smaller rope". Contractor and everyone is happy.

Option 2, An uninsured boat (and there are quite a few out there) comes off due to small or wrong specification rope and smashs to bits on the bricks. The gutted boat owner will normally go the contractor some how. Usually don't get much if anything and also now has no boat. Contractor not happy and out of pocket and time spent.

Option 3, Where do you think the 1st place the insurance company is going if a boat owner claims and gets it? Yeap.. little old us. A small couple of bloke business just making an OK living verses a huge multi-national with deep pocketed lawyers. Contractor potentially put out of business and lost house, car, everything. Going well, still out of pocket a lot and lots of time taken. Some contactors are insured, which costs BIG bucks with rocketing premiums if you ever claim. Either way very very bad.

All of the above is assuming only the one boat is involved. Imagine what happens when one takes a pile of others out. Very very very nasty.

Hence we target option 1 everytime, that's why the bigger ropes and why Lakesailor has it 100% right with the post

[ QUOTE ]
Bloody insurance companies usually just say that it should be professionally set and inspected. You try getting them to specify anything and they go all silent.

They just want to know there is someone with liability insurance they can claim off.

[/ QUOTE ]

We aren't nasty bitey people /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Only trying hard to save everyone money, time and their boats, while trying to earn a few bucks for a cold beer and some good smellies. Notice how our job makes us smell a bit like off fish all the time, just another 'perk' /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif the don't the ladies just love it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I would just l;ike to repeat the warning about side loads and fatigue on the towing eye. My boat had a 3/8 diameter U bolt into the bow it looked strong. After it fatigued and broke I found it actually went down to 5/16 the step being used to hold a plate and set the U bolt in place. I now have a saddle with 3/8 bolts which seems fine. (can't remember how many years now. posibly more than 10)
Anyway an oversized pendant to the boat does not make a strong mooring, it is just a cheap way to make it look strong. Just a couple of weeks back I replaced the pendant rope on a friends 20 ft yacht. The old one had twisted such that the splice came apart. No I have never seen that happen before. The swivel must have been stiff. Anyway he injured himself getting the boat off the rocks so I offered to fit the new pendant. He gave me the new pendant made by the local swindlery (they are actually quite good but the name ... "Yacht Grot" says it all)
The pendant was made of about 1.5 metres of 1 inch diameter rope. The thimble was spliced nicely in one end, it had an old piece of hose fitted over it and a loop about 30 cms long in the other end.
Well the loop at the top was so big it looked absurd on the tiny deck cleat on the boat. The splicing then extended over the gunwhale such that the protective tubing couldn't be pulled over the splice area so couldn't go over the gunwhale. The only option was to take the loop around the cleat twice. This was so unweildy that I ended up tying the rope in place onto the cleat to stop it "overflowing"
It was a classic cae of the guy making the pendant oversizing it because it made him look good ( cost is not an issue with a small piece of rope) but the end result being unsafe because it was oversized. Yes he would be far better off with multiple pendants that are much smaller.
Re ropes laying in the water. That is what I tie the dinghy too with a longish painter. It makes a big target for picking up on return. This may not suit in all mooring areas. If I do leave it without a dinghy i always wrap the pendant ropes around the buoy. Mainly to minimise weed growth.
good luck olewilll
 
slip a piece of clear plastic tubing over the rope before the final slice, then tie the tube so it comes over the fairlead, takes the wear and tear.
 
[ QUOTE ]
He gave me the new pendant made by the local swindlery (they are actually quite good but the name ... "Yacht Grot" says it all)
The pendant was made of about 1.5 metres of 1 inch diameter rope. The thimble was spliced nicely in one end, it had an old piece of hose fitted over it and a loop about 30 cms long in the other end.
Well the loop at the top was so big it looked absurd on the tiny deck cleat on the boat. The splicing then extended over the gunwhale such that the protective tubing couldn't be pulled over the splice area so couldn't go over the gunwhale. The only option was to take the loop around the cleat twice. This was so unweildy that I ended up tying the rope in place onto the cleat to stop it "overflowing"
It was a classic cae of the guy making the pendant oversizing it because it made him look good ( cost is not an issue with a small piece of rope) but the end result being unsafe because it was oversized. Yes he would be far better off with multiple pendants that are much smaller.
Re ropes laying in the water. That is what I tie the dinghy too with a longish painter. It makes a big target for picking up on return. This may not suit in all mooring areas. If I do leave it without a dinghy i always wrap the pendant ropes around the buoy. Mainly to minimise weed growth.
good luck olewilll

[/ QUOTE ]

Just one reason to get a good contractor who knows what they are doing :-) . Mind you it still may look 'absurd', it's all about performance not the cosmetics :-)
 
just a warning about multiple pendants, if these are not attached to each other (i use very strong tie wraps) as the boats spins on its mooring it winds the pendants together, i have seen boats so bad that it has lifted the mooring buoy right up to the bow roller, which must put horrendous strain on the rope.
best solution without a doubt is chain with a back up pendant, forget about just relying on rope
 
I disagree about the twisting up of multiple ropes. Yes they can twist but so does chain. You must have one or more swivels inn the mooring to allow for the rotation of te boat. yes multiple ropes may twist to a degree but as soon as it gets a bit tight the swivel should move. Certainly I don't have a problem with 2 pendants. olewill
 
Gmac
I was asking a question not making a statement!

BFWIW
My club is pretty large and we have around 230 deep water moorings, most are swingers some are fore & aft.

The ground chains are ex RN closed link anchor chains and 2 out of 4 are 3000' long (continuous).

We use 3/4"" shackles onto 5/8" chain risers thread locked and moused

All are professionally inspected on a 2-year cycle.

The club insures up to and including the mooring buoy.

The club rules ask for (min) 14mm warps x 2 for boats up to 32' and (min) 16mm x 2 up to 42'

There are no permanent moorings available for boats over 42'.

On fore & aft moorings the club supplies the span lines, but not the mooring warps.

The members are responsible for supplying their own warps/bridles and are also responsible for attaching them to the mooring buoy.

At a recent meeting (within the last 4 weeks) between the club and it's insurers/brokers many things were discussed, moorings being one of them and they , the insurers, were more than happy with the set-up we have. Their reading of the situation was the moorings are professionally serviced and should a mooring fail then they would pay for any damaged done, but if the members warps/bridles failed then their insurers would foot the bill.

Hence my question - because the original poster was being asked to supply warps so big as to make it nye impossible to safely secure the boat and from memory he has a 26' mobo and was being asked to supply 20+ mm warps that wouldn't fit his cleats. The mobo manufacturer supplies cleats that are strong enough to moor the vessel and it should follow that the size of line to wrap around the cleat 3-4 times with a "lock" would be good enough!

I cannot for the life of me see the point of supplying mooring warps so big that they would never break even if the entire weight of the boat was being lifted on them, only to see the cleat(s) ripped from the deck!

Peter.
 
Boatman, I was not having a go but just trying explain why we do what we do and the common mis-understanding about who insures who.

Obviously the guy asking for the big ropes on the small boat had not checked it out properly. Mind you any cleat not able to take 20mm is bloody small.

Bigger the rope the more time to see and stop chafe. I have never seen a rope on a mooring break yet, excluding ones that have chafed through and polyprop. Seen a couple of chains break right on the bow roller though.

99% of all moorings are massively over-specified if you work on break loads alone. They are built for durablity and wear/chafe resistance.

It appears a lot of the forumites here do keep a good eye on their moored boats, sadly you are all in the very small minority.
 
Noticed u r from the solway firth.

i am lookn for a mooring contractor to put a mooring in for a regal 2000 near Mossyard . Be grateful for any ideas
 
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