swageless terminals

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tabernacleman

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I have purchased via e bay from Stainless Steel Direct swagless eye terminals for use on my new forstay after sorting out the roller reefing. The terminals arrived without fitting instructions and contact with the seller and the manufacturer KINZI have had a negative response. SSD has offered a refund but having cut the stay to fit I am reluctant to remove the new fitting which I have fitted but I am not 100% certain of its integrity, does anyone have any knowledge of these fittings, the fitting is right hand thread and the 7 x 19 wire is 'normal' right hand lay. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Do not overtighten
Use non-corrosive marine sealant (NOT domestic bath)
Use thread locking adhesive - Loctite 241 (blue)

Norseman

Norseman.jpg


Sta-lok

Staylock.jpg
 
Thanks for the replies so far, the small collar at diagram 3 is not included with the terminals I have, therefore the concave inner surface of the top part does not bear down on the wire/cone, comments appreciated
 
further to the above the wire forms the shapes marked with an X in the diagram 5 probably indicating that thye terminals I have are wrong handed /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
So you have identified it as a Sta-lok.
I know you can buy new cones as seen in Norseman fig 4, as you should always use a new one (size critical to wire size / type), but not sure about other part (cone / wire compressor?).
Are you sure it isn't stuck up in the end eye as it may well be on a pre used assembly.
 
Mmm, similar to the sta lock I would say, insomuch as the end eye fitting is the female, when the cone is pushed as far down the wire to have the wires touching the concave inner of the female fitting it does not compress the ends of the wire, the fitting does hold when put under stress pulling the cone into the tapered fitting, but I am still not 100% sure, maybe I need to see 1st hand a stra-lock fitting /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
IMHO, don't bugger about! Get a refund on these fittings, and buy a decent fitting which come with instructions and have a proven track record (e.g. Sta-Lock or Norseman).

A 7mm eye is about £25 from S3i, who I have dealt with in the past, and found to be first class.

The fittings will probably be a similar length to the ones you have - the dimensions are on the S3i web-site. If, despite careful selection of fittings, the stay is too short, you may be able to gain an inch, or so with any forestay adjustment you have, or by fitting an extra toggle at the top or bottom of the stay. Worst case is that you have to buy some more wire.

If you get the assembly wrong (or the fitting breaks becaue it's designed for architectural use, or is made in a factory with minimal quality control, or came out the 'back door' from a reject bin, or....), then you'll probably lose your rig. Even if you don't, you'll have a sail and furling foil flailing from the masthead. The rougher the sea, and the worse the weather, the more likely it is to fail...

Sorry if this sounds a bit 'short', but I don't think a forestay is somewhere for things to be 'nearly right'.

Good luck, whatever /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Andy
 
[ QUOTE ]
The terminals arrived without fitting instructions and contact with the seller and the manufacturer KINZI have had a negative response.

[/ QUOTE ]

We have experience of those 'KINZI' swageless terminals, and I would strongly advise you to either throw it away, return for a refund or only attempt to use it as a terminal on some sort of decorative wire design where no person or item could be hurt or damaged if it gave way.
We have not ever seen proper clear instructions for assembling them and we have not managed to successfully put one together over 3 years of trying.
We have only seen one set of instructions on the internet vaguely showing a few stages of their fitting, but it conveniently leaves out vital stages and I personally think the internal fitting has been left out so it looks like it has been fitted together successfully.
I would go for one of the tried and tested swageless terminals like Sta-lok, Norseman or Bluewave. All very good although I have never seen or changed a Bluewave swageless terminal on a forestay - only guardrails, but that doesn't mean they can't be used on a forestay.
Sta-loks and Norsemans are the two we come across on a regular basis on forestays.

Just noticed, you say your forestay is 7 x 19 construction. It should be 1 x 19 construction. You'll find you will have too much stretch in your forestay (wire does stretch, first constructionally whilst the strands first bed down, and then elastically when tuned via the backstay), which could put your mast rake out and affect your sail shape.
 
YES, GOING FOR A REFUND unless I felt 100% secure after this post then my intention was to go with a recognised manufacturer, as stated the forstay too important to mess with. By the way, the old stay, probably original, is 7 x 19 and the new stay bought from a chandlers/riggers in Pwllheli. Thanks to all who contributed. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
The Bluewave terminals work by biting into the strands wich in my wiew could weaken the wire although to my knowledge there are no failures recorded.The Norseman terminals and especially the Staloks have a very good safety record.The only one I ever saw fail was because it had been assembled without thread lock and it undid itself.
 
You have little choice on what to do.

The terminals you have will have been designed for 1/19 wire which is the wire normally used for standing rigging.

As you have 7/19 wire it is unlikely that they will hold your wire.

You must get a swageless terminal designed for 7/19 wire.

You can get them from S3i. specifically for 7/19 wire.

They are made by Petersen in the UK who have a good instructional video on line.

They are assembled dry and only the threads are locked with loctite. All the parts can be reused.

I have just taken delivery of a couple of Petersen swageless ring terminals (8mm 1/19) from S3i. They arrived just a couple of days after I ordered them on the phone. A bit more expensive than your ones, but, certainly in this case you get what you pay for.

When you speak to S3i they know the Petersen products they sell by type and function you don't even have to quote the part number to them.

All the lower standing rigging fittings on my yacht are Petersen swageless and I found them very easy and quick to assemble.

I purchased the majority of my rigging screws, insulators and terminals directly from Petersen but for smaller quantities I now find S3i more convienent as they show their prices on line.

I have no ties with either company either than being a satisfied customer.

Petersen can be found here

S3i for ordering can be found here

Cheers

Iain
 
Thanks everyone, went for a Sta-lock - fitted in ten minutes and other sent back for refund, (if they had have had the 'collar' as shown in the sta-lock fitting guide I reckon they would have been ok. Sorry for any confusion, the wire was 1 x 19 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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