suveyer says i need copper pipe to my eberspasher

Must admit that on a boat I had the eber exhaust was not the £120 one, but the brass "tank connector" for a fiver from the plumbers merchants. I really can't see the problem in a few metres of copper pipe, it's not that expensive. The BSS does actually suggest that a rigid pipe be used, with short lengths of flexible to provide vibration protection. I assume that the boat in question of course is not berthed in a basin that is controlled by BW or EA
 
npf1 said:
FWIW, I asked an Eberspacher techy about this at SBS and their recomendation was, providing the boat isn't on inland waterways, to only use copper if the fuel pipe goes through the engine space.
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And many filters such a Racor are made of plastic - so why have a copper pipe? Ask the surveyor if Racor filters should not be allowed?
 
skipper_stu said:
Tell him hes a plonker, the eber pipe is a very special one with tiny ID, the pump cant cope with a larger ID!!
IMHO if he doesnt know that then what is he doing pontificating on it? BT ( a megga H&S proponent) get around it by putting the pipes inside diesel fuel pipes (suspect neoprene coated with a fabric, I have plenty if you want some)
Stu
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Not a plonker, you can buy small bore, i.e. 1/8" copper pipe for Ebers. I have it on this noat for BSS, I had it on the last boat, also for BSS.
 
Cliveshep said:
Not a plonker, you can buy small bore, i.e. 1/8" copper pipe for Ebers. I have it on this noat for BSS, I had it on the last boat, also for BSS.
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Clive
Ebers as you know have very particular ends on their connections, designed for rubber and plastic slip on connectors, the manual goes to great length to explain how to get the correct angle of the pump, how to make sure the ends of the plastic pipe butt up etc etc, They wouldnt go to the great lengths that they do in their manuals if any old tom dick and harry could chop off bits and fit different materials, They do sell them for marine use and I am sure that they are aware of the concerns of authorities. Perhaps that is the reason why BT do what they do with their pipes on their Trannies? A simple enough solution if one is needed. I still say he is a plonka!
Stu
 
cimo said:
faith restored.

Chapter 2 page 26 (of 38) Requirement 2.10.2/R.

Your Surveyer is off his game by the looks of it?

If your hose hasn't got the standard marked on
it, the vendor will obligue I'm sure.
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Not completely off the hook; as BSS (which for the main is a load of *******s) also states:

2.13 All fixed fuel feeds and pipes permanently charged with fuel shall be made of softened copper, stainless steel, aluminium alloy, or (for diesel installations only) mild steel of suitable size, fixed clear of exhaust systems and heating apparatus and adequately supported to minimise vibration and strain. Balance pipes are only permitted in diesel fuelled installations. Any
balance pipe between fuel tanks must comply with the requirements of this standard and must in addition be fitted with valves directly attached to the tank and so constructed that the valves will not become slack when operated. [see Exemption 11.7]

2.14 Flexible tubing may only be used in the engine compartment and shall be suitable for the fuel used. It shall be of minimum practicable length,
be reinforced and have an internal diameter of not more than half its external diameter and shall have a fire resisting quality as required by BS EN ISO 7840 or DIN 4798.

2.15 All connections permanently charged with fuel shall be made with efficient screwed, compression, cone, brazed or flanged joints. Soft soldered joints shall not be used.

2.16 All fuel filters shall be suitable for marine use and shall be of fire resistant quality.

2.17 A cock or valve shall be fitted in the fuel feed pipe as near as possible to the fuel tank in a position where it is readily accessible. If it is not visible the position shall be clearly marked.
 
dunmor said:
I've had no experience with ebers but if you need narrow copper pipe couldn't you use car brake pipe and unions??????????
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No, the eber pipe is very small internal diameter because of the limited amounts pumped. The suction side should not be more than a meter ish long because of this.
Stu
 
I know the original poster was not seeking to get BSS (Boat Safety Scheme) certified, but a lot of the posts seem concerned and confused about BSS requirements

I don't know much about the BSS (and even less about whether copper piping for an Eber is a good idea), but what I do know is -

a) The actual requirements of BSS are brief and simply stated.

b) There are then approved 'expected means of compliance' - ways of meeting those requirements. This does NOT mean that your installation has to comply with these 'approved' arrangements. Just that if it does, the surveyor cannot reject it. If you have another way of meeting the requirement, the surveyor has to judge whether it meets the requirements.

c) There may be surveyors who do not (or do not want to) understand this. There is also anecdotal evidence to suggest that some BSS surveyors' judgement is influenced more by the prospect of re-inspection fees than by the merits of the installation.

d) There is a system of appeal against a surveyors adverse judgement on compliance with the BSS scheme.

The 'requirements' posted in an earlier post above are NOT the BSS requirements, but the expected means of compliance with the requirements.

To quote the 'BSS Guide'
"There are 31 legal requirements listed below for privately-owned and privately-managed boats. These requirements, known as the BSS General Requirements, are expressed in goal-setting terms. They are supported by expected means of compliance that are set out
in Chapters 2 to 9 of this Guide."

The general requirements for fuel installations (which make up 7 out of the total 31 BSS requirements) are
"Permanently installed fuel systems and fixed engines
1 All permanently installed fuel systems and fixed engines must be
designed, installed and maintained in a way that minimises the
risks of explosion, or of fire starting or spreading.
2 Fuel filling arrangements must prevent any overflow from entering
the interior of the vessel.
3 All fuel filling points must clearly identify the fuel in use.
4 Marking must be provided to identify the location of fuel system
emergency shut-off devices, or their means of operation, which are
not in open view.
5 All permanently installed fuel systems must be designed, installed
and maintained to ensure fuel-tight integrity.
6 All permanently installed fuel tanks and fuel system connections
must be accessible for inspection.
7 The pressure systems of steam-powered installations must
have a current inspection certificate issued by a recognised
competent person."

I would have thought that there wouldn't be much dissent from those requirements of a fuel installation (though I'll stand well back, as I've just rememebered the unlikelihood of getting genereal agreement on the forum!), the devil being in the interpretation and detail.

One thing that did amuse me was the fuel installations 'Best Practice' note in the BSS Guide, which perhaps betraying a bit of cutting and pasting says
"Best practice - Flexible hose has a lower fire-resistance than metallic pipe and for all these reasons we highly recommend that you restrict the length of hose used in the fuel system to the absolute minimum, i.e. the minimum length necessary to cope with vibration or the movement of engines and boat structures."

"for all these reasons"??!!??
 
well chaps and ladies just to let you know i fitted the bloody copper pipe and it sounded like a kango hammer to make things worse i had a heart attack in the week i was messing with it then the pump failed well I’ve put it back to original bought a new pump and its working again i think the motto of this story is if it ant broke don’t fix it cause it might kill you trying
 
Bio diesel

According to an article in February's PBO, in 2011 we will have to use bio/lowsulphur diesel
which is incompatible with copper what are BSS planning to do then.
one of the few materials unaffected by this is nylon. Have fun.
 
sjclewes said:
well chaps and ladies just to let you know i fitted the bloody copper pipe and it sounded like a kango hammer to make things worse i had a heart attack in the week i was messing with it then the pump failed well I’ve put it back to original bought a new pump and its working again i think the motto of this story is if it ant broke don’t fix it cause it might kill you trying
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Phewww! get well soon.

Stu
 
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