surveyors opinion

Re: Misunderstood \"profession\" ???

Hi ,er,Nigel. You are absolutely correct about the dirth of accredited bodies for surveyors or the need for any accredition at all ...Nevertheless I would expect to find 'something' meaningful on any surveyors letterheading, even if only''25 years of surveying'' or something like that ,and not of course the meaningless waffle along the lines of "marine specialist /expert!",unsubstanted! .....
Two examples from personal experience .
1. I was 'priveleged' to accompany a wooden boat specialist along on a survey of a vessel that I already knew very well ,watched in horror as he hammered away at each and every pitchpine plank 'in order to determine whether ,by dint of a dull ring tone from the hammered wood,there may be patches of rot in the back hidden faces of the frames behind the planks'. Well ,yes ,ok,but what about the hundreds of dents now in the planks from your 'expert'hammer. No time served yard guy would ever approach the problem in quite such a destructive way..
Second example .I wanted to buy a boat that I knew had the beginings of Wicking in the grp ,all surveyors charged about the same rate ,so I had the purchase survey done by the guy that wrote the book on Osmosis-He had genuine authority that would be neutrally respected as the tool for negotiating the sale,job done.
 
Quiet different experiences

Over the 22 years that I've had Mirelle I have appointed three different surveyors, the first has died but the other two are still friends. This covered purchase, damage assessment and supervision of repairs after October '87, and regular surveys every four years "whether she need it or no" (as was said of Queen Elizabeth 1's curious habit of taking baths!) I have always made it clear that the survey is for me and I want to know all the bad news.

I think that with any older boat you must expect to renew systems.

Every time the boat has been surveyed the surveyor has found something that needed attention and that I had missed. Cracked frames come to mind, as the sort of thing. One cracked frame does not matter but they are better dealt with. Engine fuel lines are another. In fact, by now, much of the boat has been rebuilt "just a little bit stronger".

I've never had a bad experience with a surveyor. There is no way that I could possibly know as much as a professional surveyor.

But obviously I know a fair bit, which helps both parties.
 
Re: Unfair? I think not.

I understand your post and I sympathise .... but my point is that if you want such depth - then a Marine Surveyor is not the animal you want ... you are now in Diesel / Engine Technician, Electrical Engineers, Rigging Specialist territories ....

When you have RAC or AA check a car before you buy - you get the same as what we are commenting on here ... problem is that many consider a Surveyor better equipped / knowledgeable than he really is ...

You cannot ask an Engine Technician to inspect for Osmosis - but here you expect me to inspect and cover an engine ... NO Sir - I will not mislead you and OK an engine that I cannot properly investigate ....

I agree that you seem to have come off worst for your affair and you have my thoughts ... I'm sorry that it has affected your regard for us ...

In all fairness a Surveyor is Jack of all Trades - Master of none .... (well not strictly true as most will have served some learning curve in the boat industry somewhere .... mine was growing up around boats and getting stuck in helping / etc. in traditional boat yard etc. - plus my years as an actual Commercial Surveyor Career ... )

As many know - I actually own a Marine Survey Company along with labs etc. - so it has taken me to levels past the norm .... (wish it had made me rich though !!!!)

Your approach in using experienced guys in each field you are concerned about is excellent and I agree ... but as said before - you are lucky to have that opportunity. I would like to see if an Insurance Company would accept letters of condition etc. from them for Cover .... you may be lucky !!

It is well to note that depending on age and size of the craft .... plus work carried out - that often Underwriters will accept Yard Letters of Work and Condition of Craft instead of Surveyors Reports ....

I can say that I have a concession that finally I have been recognised as able to look after my own boat !! and subject to letters of maintenance and repair where required - am covered by Insurance without Survey .... took a lot of discussion though !! It is worth enquiring as to whether your Insurance Co. would accept a Yard Letter about seaworthiness of your craft ....

But of course that does not solve the Pre-Purchase dilema of most people .... Surveyors will be around for a long while yet for this and other work ....

Final comment .... should you ever have the misfortune to have damage to your boat - you will probably LOve the surveyor who manages to keep your claim intact and gets your boat repaired / settled satisfactorily .... but heavens I hope you never need that service.
 
Re: Misunderstood \"profession\" ???

Gee thanks! But this hands on boatbuilder (who is a chartered mechanical engineer by profession) does not want to be involved in surveys thanks. Too much hassle!
But you are quite right, I have often groaned inwardly when faced with an owner clutching a surveyors report and asking my opinion of what he should do....
But don't dispair peeps there are some good guys out there, it's just that there are a lot of charlatans too, especially when it comes to their knowledge of composite materials....
 
Hi, did you make him show you his professioanl indemnity insurance and follow the guidelines from the Institute of marine surveyors website- - they are very specific - or did you do what most people do and bung the latest deification a few hundred for you know not what. Does he have any qualifications? Is he a memeber of something? If you go down the legal route he could probably recommend a solicitor he knows to take your money and they can buy each other drinks while you fret and worry. As long as you made a contract with him as per Institute of Marine Surveyors, you have a starting point otherwise you bought his services and its Caveat Emptor from the beginning

BOL
 
hello all
thanks for all your replys at least i am not alone in my thinking can i also just say it is not that i expected him to report on the engines or the gas or the wiring ect it is that the report tells me nothing about her

i will tell you what the final over all opinion is here goes

CONCLUSION

vessel is a substantial sea cruiser !

this is the same as the spec sheet same wording

it should have a useful life!

I like the part (should) i feel really confident

is this a normal conclusion would love to hear other conclusions mine seems a bit short LOL
 
hi cobra he belongs to the YBDSA have not payed him yet but have 1 week to do so yes he has insurance because he belongs to the ybdsa and you cant belong to it with out professonal indemnity insurance payed highest price for survey so i would get a good surveyor and was very happy to pay it had i got an understanding of the boats condition but its full of wording that is put in such a way you cant really make an opinion on her condition thank for your advice ill see what they have to say about the report happends
 
The YBDSA also advise their members to include a clause in their contracts to offer/seek mediation as a first step in any dispute.

Mediation involves perhaps costly experts and the agreement is that both parties share costs. Details are on the YBDSA website. This looks like an expensive (for customers who may be right) option to put people off? or am I being synical?

I have to say it is sometimnes difficult to find out real details of condition without almost taking a boat apart or carrying out very specialist inspections, like crack tests on welds, dismantleing internal fittings to get to see the mounts for tanks.

Its like I said, its so that the insurance company knows you have a boat, as you could buy one insure it and then say it sank 200 miles off lands end...and claim, without them being able to check. The useful survey is when you have something structural that needs repairing and you then seek an expert in that field, who also supervises and checks the work carried out.
 
Hope you win out - but always get SIGHT of the insurance AND his membership of anything AND confirm with the relevant body AND get it all agreed AND in writing AND at least two references ETEC. ETC.

BOL
 
When I had my boat surveyed for purchase 10 years ago I knew I was buying a lot of hard work. When the 20 page report went to the finance company the chap there made the comment that he wished surveyors would give a report on the state of the boat not a job list to bring it upto showroom condition.
 
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