survey missed the obvious

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icepatrol

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have now discovered why my engine has had to be rebuilt and what caused this.
a fuel coolant pipe failed and the engine overheated..
this was a external pipe and i feel the surveyor should of picked this up.
anyone any views on this
 
Agree with Ken. Surveyors usually look at the structure of the boat, check your contract. Unless you asked for an engine survey, your pipe will not be covered by the normal survey.
 
icepatrol said:
have now discovered why my engine has had to be rebuilt and what caused this.
a fuel coolant pipe failed and the engine overheated..
this was a external pipe and i feel the surveyor should of picked this up.
anyone any views on this
Click to expand...

How long ago was the survey. ?????

How many hours run since the survey.?????

How often do you inspect the machinery when running under load at sea?????

Not many engines have a fuel coolant pipe so not many surveyors would understand the function. Are you using a redundant 777 engine ex BA ?:D

Surveyors would usually comment on something like a perished hose however
unless specifically requested and agreed to you do not normally get a mechanical survey so the onus is on the owner to take suitable precautions.
 
I agree with the other guys. I had a survey done and a separate mechanical survey of the engine/sterngear of my previous MOBO.

The overall survey pretty much just told me I had an engine and it wasn't likely to sink the boat any time soon.

I'd guess that only a specific mechanical survey would cover the likes of the condition of coolant pipes.
 
missed on survey

the pipe was metal, it had been rubbing against another part.
the survey was carried out in august and the engine seized on her first run after survey.
the boat had previously been surveyed and coded mca class two.
this leak could of been picked up on many occasions.
the same surveyor had been used to code her and knew the boat very well.
 
Did

the engine high temperature alarm sound? You do have one?.
Sorry but I agree with the previous posters, this would need a specific engine/ mechanical survey to be picked up.
 
The old adage springs to mine, if you want a job doing properly.........

A friend a few years ago sold a large late 70's Moody, great boat been around the world, the surveyor missed the 1 inch deep puddle around the deck stepped mizzen mast caused by presumably the standing rigging behind repeatadly over tightened! We were all surprised as it was easy to spot.
 
gta said:
The old adage springs to mine, if you want a job doing properly.........

A friend a few years ago sold a large late 70's Moody, great boat been around the world, the surveyor missed the 1 inch deep puddle around the deck stepped mizzen mast caused by presumably the standing rigging behind repeatadly over tightened! We were all surprised as it was easy to spot.
Click to expand...

I paid for a survey of my boat, as required by the insurers. The survey came back glowing, everything excellent except for a couple of very minor points. Before launching I checked all the seacocks. The handle on one at the galley broke off when I turned it. Neither of the heads seacocks could be turned. There was a deep puddle of water in the locker beneath the galley sink, not commented upon.

Complete waste of money. Fortunately I had engaged the cheapest I could find and the insurers were happy.
 
Before I bought my boat (an early 1970's yacht with the original MD1 engine)I got the local Volvo Penta mechanic to run and survey the engine - the boat had been out of the water for quite some time (if the engine was knackered then it wasn't worth buying the boat).
Survey cost about £50 and whilst there was no guarantee from the engineer, it did give me confidence that the engine was serviceable.

After the sale, I spent about £200 on new ignition, new fuel tank and fuel lines and the engine has been totally reliable ever since.

I suppose the moral of the story is that you would have to commission a mechanical survey if you wanted reassurance of engine condition, and even then the survey would probably have so many caveats as to make it worthless if any mechanical problems subsequently came to light.
 
1st thing is to confirm if the engine formed part of the survey.

Check the T&Cs under which the survey was conducted, they are like house surveys so heavily caveated that they only really serve the insurance companies. You can do a bit of digging if they are members of the BMF etc etc.

At the same time as the above document and photograph everything, receipts etc. (Even if you dont take this further etc it will be useful if and when you come to sell the boat).

If it did form part of the survey highlight the issue with the surveyor and ask them to comment. The response will guide your next steps.

I have had a similar situation where a surveyor failed to spot something structurally in the boat. Net result, i'm out a fat 5 figure sum and the only way to take action on the surveyor if via the courts. Lots more money and lots more risk. So I have cut my loses, take it on the chin and console myself that at least I didn't loose it in an Icelandic bank (not that i would put money there as they kill endangered whales).
 
Agree with others' comments. Unless you asked for a full engine and mechanicals report unlikely you will be successful.

Your engines are highly specialised and as a result there are few people with the expertise to give a proper report. A general yacht surveyor would not be in a position to give an opinion on them.
 
Opinionated surveyors

Tranona quoted: A general yacht surveyor would not be in a position to give an opinion on them (engines).
I'm eternally grateful to one who did! He saved me a lot of money.

Katouf had been partially submerged for a short while but it was obvious if you looked that the tide mark inside only came up to a level half way up the gear box. A potential purchaser, just before I saw her and decided to buy, had been told by his surveyor that the engine had seized. This was based on his inability to turn the MD2B engine over on the handle. When I looked at it 2 days later, the oil in the gearbox and engine looked as new and the engine turned over easily!?!
The compression was so good, he thought it had seized and he didn't know enough about engines and decompression levers.
Moral: When you buy a used boat, read up on class history and take someone who knows about mechanics and boat building but don't believe everything you're told by a surveyor.

Alan
 
icepatrol's engines are Detroit Diesels about 30 years old. Whilst fairly common in industrial applications of that era there are very few in operation in boats. Whilst by today's standards they are simple without electronics, the design is idiosyncratic to say the least and not the sort of thing an average surveyor would touch!
 
Chris_Robb said:
What is a fuel Coolant pipe?
Click to expand...

Yeah... I wondered that. If it was a simple coolant pipe then you should have had a big puddle in the boat which should have given a clue and an over temperature alarm warning. I am horrified at the number of engines I see with no working temperature alarm or gauge. The MINIMUM fitted should IMHO always be a temperature alarm on the coolant. My engine also has a "low flow" warning on the inlet, an exhaust temperature alarm and a gauge telling me what the temperature actually is. I also have an oil pressure gauge in addition to an alarm, a voltmeter and ammeter. I don't like surprises!!!
 
icepatrol said:
have now discovered why my engine has had to be rebuilt and what caused this.
a fuel coolant pipe failed and the engine overheated..
this was a external pipe and i feel the surveyor should of picked this up.
anyone any views on this
Click to expand...

With all due respect, if it was obvious, why didn't you pick it up. I have just used a surveyor, and what I wanted him for was the non-obvious stuff ...
 
The surveyors responsibility is to do his job professionally and with care. If your pipe was leaking and there was water all over the place, then you can clearly argue that he didnt do that. On the other hand, if the worn pipe wasnt then leaking and the wear was not visually obvious, he is in the clear.

With a similar problem that was obvious, I wrote to the surveyor explaining nicely what had happened with photographs, and saying that I didnt think he had done the job properly. His first offer was to refund the survey fee but we settled in the end for rather more than that albeit maybe half the cost of repairs.

So look at the problem dispassionately. Should he have spotted the problem ie was it obvious? If so, write and claim. But dont confuse a survey with a guarantee and dont imagine that surveyors have supernatural powers to spot hidden defects.
 
missed on survey

right.
can i make a couple of points clear.
these engines are more common in marine enviroments than has been suggested.
the burst pipe in question is in a very obviuos place.
it is a pipe that cools the fuel. as the fuel wasnt cooled ....................
hope that clears things
with regard to insurance what is the point of it if the surveyor has filled the report with get out clauses.
we are paying for survey and insurance that seems worthless.
 
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