Survey haul out who pays for what ??

clyst

clyst

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Hi Guys

Its almost survey time for my new purchase . Buying from a broker but who is expected to pay for what ? I know I pay for my survey but who normally pays for cranage and storage allbeit maybe only for a day . Mraina costs something like £350 for haul out and kept in slings for a bit . Who is normally responsible for payment to have the boat brought over to hoist ? The vender lives some 400 miles from the boat .

Sorry if I appear niave but other boats I have bought have either been on drying river moorings or in a boatyard .

Cheers
 
In my opinion, the buyer pays for the lift out and for the survey. Often the lift can be arranged so that the boat remains in slings, perhaps over lunch plus a bit rather than it being put in a cradle and incurring other charges.

It is not the buyers fault that the owner lives a long way away, so he should be responsible for getting the boat to the lift, or to pay the yard to do so or maybe to entrust the broker (who will earn a fee from the sale) to do so. Again in my opinion.
 
It's my understanding that the party who requests the survey is responsible for any fees associated with the survey, such as cranage, etc.. If possible, then arranging it over a lunch break is a good idea so that the boat can be held in slings while the yard is not working and the crane's not required for anything else.
As for drying moorings, not all surveyors seem to be willing to walk across to a drying mooring if it's particularly muddy!

If your survey is satisfactory and you decide to proceed with a deal then perhaps that might be the time to try and negotiate some "remuneration", although the seller is not obliged to help out here.

The other alternative is to ask to see the previous survey if there is one - you may not actually need another if it's fairly recent. Although again, the seller isn't obliged to show you this.
 
Usual convention is for buyer to pay - but like anything, subject to negotiation.

Odds are she will be coming out soon for antifoul / anodes anyway so why not ask when and arrange your surveyor for then - if he is keen no reason why he can't bring things forward for you..........or at least split the cost.

Of course he is probably hoping to avoid haulout costs this year and the maintanence - in your shoes I would haggle for splitting the haulout cost and a couple of days (week?) ashore, the thinking being that if you purchase have time to antifoul / change anodes yourself and no need to pay for another haulout.

Don't ask, don't get :)
 
,,

I have to agree with the others on here in that whoever instigates the survey, is therefore responsible for such costs.
A seller should not have to incur the costs “automatically”
Remember the saying "buyer beware"
Its up to the buyer to be happy with what they are purchasing therefore using all means possible to them to satisfy themselves on same be it getting a survey or not.
Its a small price to pay for "piece of mind" or prevention of a worst case scenario.
Best of luck with it.
 
costs

make sure the owner is aware that if he pulls out following the survey, that you will be demanding your expenditure back. It happened to me when osmosis was discovered, I offered to either pay the asking price less the cost of the osmosis treatment, or the seller could have the job done and I would pay full asking price, eventually he took the boat off the market!!
He was by the way advertising his boat as 'A1 condition, exceptional etc etc' and was a bit shell shocked when the 'O' was discovered.
The problem of course is that if that situation applies to a few boats you view, the cost soon gets into the thousands.
Get something in writing.
 
If its going through a broker you should have signed some form of preliminary contract that outlines the terms should either party not proceed for whatever reason. But certainly convention is buyer pays for survey and haul out costs. Usually the surveyor you appoint will liaise with yard to ensure boat is lifted and surveyed in slings..surprised the yard fee is so high! The broker can probably give you names (but not recommend) of surveyors who are known and deal regularly with the marina. Talk to the surveyor up front and see what deals he might be able to get via the marina / yard.
 
With my present boat, after I paid the deposit, the owner gave me a set of keys and said help yourself for the survey, she is insured, so I moved her to the travel lift. The marina had a price for a survey lift, equal to a single movement, so she was lifted mid afternoon as the last job for that day and launched next morning and kept in the slings.
 
Most of the survey can be done afloat. It's only the keel, immersed hull and rudder that need to be looked at on lift out, so no need for an overnight yard cost.
 
I paid about £300 for a lift-out and survey on a boat that turned out to be a complete shed below the waterline - severe osmosis, delaminated rudder, bent prop and so on. The owner was in complete denial, even trying to convince me that osmosis was impossible on a 20 year old boat! I've little doubt someone subsequently went to the same expense as I did, with identical results.
 
Survey costs

THis is an interesting question as you say you are buying through a broker.

Any broker worth their salt will have drawn up a contract which explains precisely this and more regarding what the "form" is once a sale has been agreed subject to survey.Usually this will read that:
1. A certain number of days is given to have a survey conducted and if this isn't conducted within the time frame given, that the boat has been deemed accepted by the buyer.
2. That the buyer is responsible for all costs associated in the survey of the vessel and that it should be replaced in the manner it was found. Therefore surveyor cost, lift, washoff, storage or chocking, relaunch, any fuel used to propel to lift etc all at the buyers expense.
3. Once survey has been conducted there is a certain timeframe to report back to the broker.
4. Is either accepted or refused or is "renegotiated" in the event that the boat has "Material Defects" -this means problems adverse to the structural integrity of the vessel or whose repair could be a substantial expense.

Renegotiation has three choices
A price reduction is made by the vendor and the sale completes.
The vendor agrees to make good the defects to your surveyors satisfaction
The vendor walks away (he is at liberty to do this and has no obligation to make recompense for any of the buyers costs!)

The contract is standard YBDSA fare and many brokers use similar format. It protects both parties, and also makes them aware of their obligations.

You'd have to ask why a broker wasn't using it.... but there are plenty of clowns out there!
 
clyst said:
Hi Guys

Its almost survey time for my new purchase . Buying from a broker but who is expected to pay for what ? I know I pay for my survey but who normally pays for cranage and storage allbeit maybe only for a day . Mraina costs something like £350 for haul out and kept in slings for a bit . Who is normally responsible for payment to have the boat brought over to hoist ? The vender lives some 400 miles from the boat .

Sorry if I appear niave but other boats I have bought have either been on drying river moorings or in a boatyard .

Cheers
Click to expand...

The vendor is not obliged to pay for anything to facilitate the sale; but hang on, if he's keen he'll chip in. The trick is of course to negotiate this after settling a sizzling price for yourself.

He has to remain responsible for lifting and all the action, otherwise he's passing control of the vessel before even receiving money, and that's not an obligation you can take on.

And yes, if you and your surveyor don't like what you see when you've surveyed the boat, the cost of all that inspecting is out of your pocket. Ouch - better be sure you really like it, and are not kicking the tyres!

PS. You can recover some of the cost by insisting on just a structural survey (costs less)
so you don't get 15 pages of useless inventory and cosmetic comments!

PWG
 
tabernacleman said:
make sure the owner is aware that if he pulls out following the survey, that you will be demanding your expenditure back.
Click to expand...

It's difficult to see how you could enforce this as no contract exists between buyer and seller. The only goods and services exchanging hands at this stage are between the "lifter outer"/ surveyor and the person who requests these services. As breach of promise is no longer a tort in UK law, whatever the seller signs has no legal standing, unless you wish to pursue a tenuous claim for negligence.
 
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I was led to believe that once an offer is excepted, and a sale agreement is signed by both parties, the seller is obliged to sell if the buyer is prepared to pay the offered price.
 
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