Survey Faults - how much should the seller bare?

Chris_Robb

Chris_Robb

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There are a number of faults on the Ocean lord I am buying that were un foreseen, such as the mast compression stansion crushing the base, and osmosis in the rudder (hull was only 4 % and its been in the water all its life!)

I am getting quotes for the items at the moment. How much should the seller reasonably bare? 100% 50 % or what. I can understand that if something half way thorugh its life is replaced , then you have something better - so you should contribute. But structural things???? What does the team think?
 
Is the rudder just showing wet on the meter or are there blisters, most rudders are wet! Drying out the rudder will be a time consuming job or you will have to pay to 'Hotvac' it. How bad is it really? Send 'John-Morris-UK' a PM' he has an Ocean Lord and had similar problems. In the end the price needs to reflect what the boat is worth to you before you spend money.

Yoda
 
It's pretty much up to your negotiating skills. Decide how much money and more importantly time ( remember the next sailing season is not too far away ) you are prepared to sacrifice.

I was in a similar position and got to the mental point where I was prepared to 'walk away' but had ready cash. It was a tremendous bargaining position and I ended up paying a very reduced amount for my boat.

Ian M
 
Yes very wet - but that is normal. Has some osmosis. se extract from report
A. The GRP rudder blade was found to be sound. However, the rudder blade is suffering from an osmotic condition. Large acid filled blisters were found at the leading edge of the rudder blade.

and the recomendations:

2. The osmotic condition on the rudder blade is not affecting the structural integrity or seaworthiness of the vessel.
3. However, it is obvious that this rudder blade will require the full osmosis treatment, i.e. peeling, blasting, steam cleaning, drying out and then treated for osmosis.
4. It is also my opinion that this rudder blade, after peeling and blasting may well require some extra matt as these blisters are large and deep.
5. In order to carry out a good job on the rudder blade, the rudder should be removed and at this time new rudder bearings should be fitted. This job can wait until the end of this coming season.

It really is a game of how much will they accept etc.....

I will wait for the quotes and then decide.
 
In the USA it is normal for the seller to pay up to 10% of the boats value to correct survey faults, after which the deal is off unless the parties agree otherwise. Words to this effect are usually included in the offer to purchase. I don't know if it is formalised to this extent in the UK, but it has always seemed reasonable to me.
 
The last boat I bought was in Holland and the process was handled between the brokers and surveyor - up to 10%. I did'nt get involved - the faults were fixed, and that was the end of it - my boat. The standard UK contract says that the seller should within x number of days agree a price, repair items - or refund the deposit with interest (but not my survey fee!)

So it is down to how hard I can push him - if he refuses he would probably have to repair the items himself or declare the faults to a new purchaser.

Oh well - other than these faults he has spent a bloody fortune on her - new everything - and new (6mm) teak decks - urggg - I am not sure I really wanted teak - looks lovely but 10 years on.......
 
Unless the seller is particularly attractive you should ask them to keep everything covered up IMHO /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
The survey, good or bad, is just one part of the process.

How much do you want that boat?
How quickly does the seller need the money?
Do you need a boat in ready to-go condition, a project, or a mid point?

The survery could be wrong, in either yours or the sellers favour.

Try pulling out, say the survey is too negative and you want a better boat for your money. See what happens...

All just fuzzy ramblings, of course.
 
I recall an article in one of the mags last year or two. This implied that you can't expect everyhting to be perfect and the buyer shouldn't renegotiate the price is the items needing to be fixed were within 10% of the first offer. Beyond that some renegotiation was necessary.

When I bought my boat there were question marks over the engine and I detailed all the work I wanted done by a VP engineer before I'd pay the offer price. He had an estimate of £900 but it cost him £1400 in the end.

If there are real problems he probably has to get them fixed in order to sell the boat anyway. So get him to fix them and know that you've got a good boat - unless you're a gambling man.
 
Forget 10%, go with tangofour (advice above). If you've got cash waiting and you're a competent negotiator, unafraid of walking away, you should get a very good deal.
 
i think you have to consider the asking price compared to similar boats then how much do you want to buy how much does the seller want/ need to sell.

No boat will come with a 100% survey report. You could walk away from this one only to spend money surveying a worse one.
 
I bought a boat last year, and the surveyor found faults that were not there, for example, he said that the rigging was stretched and slack and the bottle screws were at their limit.

When we put the mast up, this was nonsense - the yard said "I don't think he is talking about this boat" Why should the vendor pay 10% of that?
 
The survey is the way that the buyer knocks the price right down, if he knows what he's doing (and has a surveyor who knows what they're both doing...).

I would never let a surveyor do a survey without being there myself, and I would expect to have spotted the vast majority of the problems beforehand - I appreciate, that the ability to do that is based on experience and a bit of technical know-how...
 
Mast compression problem - seller should probably pay 100%.

Rudder - as almost all ruddesr have very high moisture content once the job is done you will have one of the very few boats with a dry blade, so better than before - you might split costs.

This question often comes up with boats with hull osmosis found on survey - a 50:50 split of the cost of a full treatment is a fairly common way to agree - seller moves the boat on and buyer gets a boat with a newly treated bottom at half price for the job.
 
The who pays debate has been covered widely above but most focus has been on the rudder.

The mast support compression issue would concern me more than the rudder. After all the the blisters on the rudder can be opened up, washed out, dried and filled with epoxy fairly quickly. A more permanent fix can be effected at a later date.

If the construction of the boat is like other Westerlys of that era the mast support sits on a substantial cross member immediately above the keel. If this is compressing it could be indicative of more serious problems. There would also be noticeable deformation of the coachroof immediately under the mast step. If you are going to get this work done professionally then make sure you find out why the deformation has occured.

We had a similar issue with our Westerly when it was surveyed where the mast support appeared very badly rusted below the level of the cabin sole. Also there was a slight deformation of the coach roof. To fix any problem in this area it's a mast down job which will not be trivial task with the substantial rig on this boat. When we took our support out we found no deformation of the cross beam - it was solid. Once we had cleaned the support up and treated it we put back with some shims at the top to counteract the slight coachroof deformation.
 
I think other posts are more realistic. Apportioning %s for this that and the other are nothing to do with the real situation, which is that he wants to sell his boat and you want to buy. It's the one who blinks first who loses.
If he has a bottom price beyond which he will not sell, no amount of % this and % that will shift him.
 
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