Survey Boats

[DAKA]

A friend has had a little incident and seeks advice ready for repercussions or future incidents.


While cruising in the solent a small boat was spotted 2 miles off on port side .
The boat was 10m and slow moving but maintained a collision course.
About a cable off my friend decided to take avoiding action and helmed to starboard (edited) to miss the boat by passing in front of him 75m-100m

Apparently the skipper left the wheel house stood at his bow giving the raggie birdie flapping signal, understood by some to mean slow down.

My friend didnt think anything of it apart from commenting along the lines of , "well if he thought I was too close at that speed why did the plonker stand on for so long on my port side"

Later that evening the boat was spotted in harbour with a banner attached to the side, intrigued my friend walked up to the boat and eventually got close enough (20m) to read 'survey' .

Do survey boats have extra stand on duties and by what means are they obligated to make others aware of such duties ?

A small banner flapping on the side of a boat isnt very visible, my friend had only been out for 1/2 hour and had not heard any navigation warnings issued.

How many of us turn up at the boat, turn the keys and cast off ?
Is there a duty to VHF Solent CG before casting off to check the days navigation warnings ?

Should the survey vessel have made vhf contact from 1 mile off ?

BTW
My friend was perfectly happy with the safety aspect it was the skipper of the survey vessel who used Semaphore as a means of communication that appeared upset after he had motored into the situation.

 

[RIB_imposter]

Apparently the skipper left the wheel house stood at his bow giving the raggie birdie flapping signal, understood by some to mean slow down.

Standing raising and lowering both arms? Internationally recognised signal for distress.

 

[DAKA]

Standing raising and lowering both arms? Internationally recognised signal for distress.

Do you mean the next time a raggie does it you can heave a grappling hook round his rigging and claim salvage

 

[Kawasaki]

A friend has had a little incident and seeks advice ready for repercussions or future incidents.





Do survey boats have extra stand on duties and by what means are they obligated to make others aware of such duties ?

The vessel should have been showing the appropiate 'day shape' if it was nessecary.

'Underwatwer operations'
'Restricted in it's ability to manouvre'
'Constrained by draught'
Etc Etc.

Obviously nothing was 'showing'?
Or did you notice any black balls or triangles dangling about?

If not you were the stand on vessel!

 

[Wiggo]

So he's on your port side and on a collision course. That of course makes you the stand on vessel, but at a cable's length off, you turn to port to avoid a collision? And you turned to port to pass 75-100m in front of him? By my reckoning, turning to port would have brought you closer to him if you intended to pass in front, unless you turned very hard to port and actually passed astern of him.

Sorry, I meant your friend...

 

[colingr]

This one perhaps?

http://www.southamptonvts.co.uk/files/2010%20no%2042_t_r.pdf

Usually such operations are posted in

http://www.southamptonvts.co.uk/nmariners.htm

You can sign up to get email notice of such documents being posted.

I believe it is the responsibility of vessels operating within the bounds of Southampton Port Authority to make themselves aware of any notices and comply as appropriate. I assume that is the same for any major port.

 

[DAKA]

So he's on your port side and on a collision course. That of course makes you the stand on vessel, but at a cable's length off, you turn to port to avoid a collision? And you turned to port to pass 75-100m in front of him? By my reckoning, turning to port would have brought you closer to him if you intended to pass in front, unless you turned very hard to port and actually passed astern of him.

Sorry, I meant your friend...

Thanks Wiggo, my friend has amended the post.

Kawasaki,
it was such a small boat no shapes would have been visible even @ 50m unless they were oversized in proportion , none were evident either at sea or from close up at the quayside .

If a fishing basket had been visible I dont think my friend would have given him much more space anyway. fishing nets presumably dont mind a bit of wash or fishermen wouldnt go out in anything above a F3 ??

 

[DAKA]

This one perhaps?

http://www.southamptonvts.co.uk/files/2010%20no%2042_t_r.pdf

Usually such operations are posted in

http://www.southamptonvts.co.uk/nmariners.htm

You can sign up to get email notice of such documents being posted.

I believe it is the responsibility of vessels operating within the bounds of Southampton Port Authority to make themselves aware of any notices and comply as appropriate. I assume that is the same for any major port.

Sounds about the right size of boat, thanks for the link.

Does anyone check on these notices before casting off for local trips ?
After reading the notice I dont think its too helpful anyway, says give a wide berth, 75m from a 12 m boat isnt really close quarters , perhaps 10 miles offshore but not for a busy day off cowes.

 

[colingr]

I get the emailed notifications but rarely take that much notice. As you say if it's small the shapes would be tricky to see anyway. It just gives a bit of notice that things are going on in a particular area.

 

[mjf]

Shame on your friend......


Suggest you sign up for LNTM issued on the internet

 

[DAKA]

Thank you.

My friend accepts fault and has signed up

Thanks for everyones input.

 

[colingr]

 

[pau1gray]

As a skipper of a survey boat in Plymouth, we usually have restricted in ability to manoeuver hoisted when carry out any operation which warrant it being displayed. In addition to this if we have ant sensitive equipment on board we may also fly Flag Romeo over Flag Yankee which is a request for vessels to slow down and reduce their wash in our vicinity.

We fully appreciate that not all water users understand what the different shapes and flags actually mean therefore keep a good look out and take any appropriate action that is necessary. It does surprise me though the number of people on the water who could do with a bit of revision, with respect to their lights and shapes.

Now if the survey boat in question was not displaying shapes and carrying out operations which required it then they were at fault and if you screwed up their survey then so be it! The LNTM says the vessel should have shapes up, if he didn't then he was in the wrong on two counts, and if he wanted people to reduce their wash around him he should also have been flying the appropriate flags.

To all the Plymothians on the forum - if you want to find out what we are up to then by all means come and talk to us - we don't bite and generally have the kettle on

 

[epervier]

an option I employ is to listen to Southampton VTS on 12, on one set, and monitor 16 on the other.

 

[coastwise]

Rule 27 (g) - vessels under 12 metres not required to show Restricted ability to Manoeuvre day mark & lights . Crazy in a busy waterway.
Paul

 

[pau1gray]

Rule 27 (g) - vessels under 12 metres not required to show Restricted ability to Manoeuvre day mark & lights . Crazy in a busy waterway.
Paul

Thats OK as our Cat is larger than that - but it does pose an interesting question on our smaller boat .... if we chose to display the R.A.M. marks should they be obeyed by other vessels???????

 

[DAKA]

Thats OK as our Cat is larger than that - but it does pose an interesting question on our smaller boat .... if we chose to display the R.A.M. marks should they be obeyed by other vessels???????

The vessel my friend came across was 10-22 m boat without a mast.

Even if flags had been flown and or fishing basket they would have been attached to a washing line from the wheel house roof to the bow roller.

The shapes/flags would have blended in with the boats colourful hull.

For shapes/flags to be seen they need to be prominently displayed from a flag pole/yard arm so that a silhouette is visible from 1/2 mile away.

The nav warnings are not really the answer, I remember once cruising off the East coast between whitby and flamborough, a nav warning was issued for a boat with divers on requesting a large berth, position given as 2 miles off whitby.....ffs

we slowed for a large boat 2 miles off whitby, gave him 1 mile clearance and carried on.

1 mile later there was a whitby coble (well about 10 of them but only one on a hand held creating a fuss, apparently while he was fishing for mackerel he had a diver in the water

 

[PilotWolf]

Whilst I agree he should have been showing day shapes ideally - we always do but then are considerably bigger...

... 75 M isn't actually that far away, we often tow multiple things up to 150M astern, some of which maybe on or just below the surface. It'll make a nice mess of your props and your insurance company's profits.

... the work I am doing now is still survey work but we are doing it at high speeds in a RIB and we are no way restricted in our manoeuvrability - in fact we are changing course aggressively at times - but ideally need to maintain that course and speed. Makes it very hard for other vessels to decide what action to take (so a radio call is usually made).

W.