Surely the experts are wrong

[kds]

I have read all the books and heard the arguments, but am now fitting out a traditional keel yacht and can not see what the real sense is in;

1. Crossing over cockpit drains. (I can use the space better.)
2. Putting toggles on shrouds where the bottle screw comes off an inverted U-fitting through the deck and is a reasonably loose fit. (It gives 360 movement.)

Am I missing something ?


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[hebdena]

Crossing the cockpit drains can prevent sea water entering the cockpit when heeling excesively if the in and outs are positioned in such away that this would be possible. I'm thinking of aground on a sandbank and heeling over as the tide goes out. The flooding of the cockpit could then flood through the companion way, not a disaster as the tide goes out but coming back in again?

Andrew

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[wayneA]

>"2. Putting toggles on shrouds where the bottle screw comes off an inverted U-fitting through the deck and is a reasonably loose fit. (It gives 360 movement.)"

It is believed that swageless fittings (such as staylok/norseman) with full articulation, at the turnbuckle fittings as you describe, reduces work-hardening of the s/s and thus reduces the risk of a standing rig failure.

Wayne


<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1><font color=red>WANTED: </font color=red>Warrior 35 (pref mkIII)<font size=1>

 

[Evadne]

As has been mentioned, cross-over cockpit drains are essential on a deep-draught, narrow-beamed old-fashioned sort of sail boat, mostly so that the cockpit stays dry (a) when well heeled (40 degrees is not unreasonable in a F6) but especially (b) when you run aground (45 degrees is a minimum!). Coming back up is worse than going down, as I found out with the sink drain. Would have sunk the boat first time I ran aground, if not closed.

I have bottle screws directly onto the U-bolts, as you describe, and they have been in place for decades with no discernable wear, except where I got new stays made the wrong length and had to put a toggle in to give me a bit more bottle screw adjustment. My terminations are plain swaged eyes with shackles into eyes, U-bolts or mast tangs.

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[Paul_H]

Agreed with other replies re to cross or not. It depends on your cockpit configuration relative to water level and heeling. Either way watch out for creating an air lock with your drain hose. Air lock can be formed if pipe is S bend shaped and top of bend is above water level. As water fills the cockpit it can trap air in the pipe bend and it will take half a cockpit full of water before there's enough pressure to push the trapped air out.

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[Mirelle]

1. Crossing the cockpit drains.

All I can say is that I have had a boat where I fitted them un-crossed and the lee side always had a puddle in it going to windward. Not dangerous, but annoying.

Conversely the boat I have now, with crossed drains, does not!

I thought I could use that space, too, but, unless your boat is a different shape to mine, which she may be, it is behind the engine and un-get-attable from a quarter berth, so best left unused. I ended up storing cans of paint there until I spotted the deviation!

2. Toggles. Without seeing the set up, cannot really comment. But you can be sure that some surveyor will comment if you leave then out (luckily I've got deadeyes and lanyards!)

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[Davy_S]

I have to dissagree with crossing of cockpit drains, IMHO the simplest way is to leave as they are, and simply put a bung in the leeward drain. if for instance when running in a following sea. If you are aground, when awaitingtide to refloat it is a simple matter to stick bung in you will refloat no problem. (been there done it not pleasant) Also as mentioned your cockpit will fill up if drains crossed when aground before enough pressure has built up to empty it. If you have the bungs on a lenth of cord, they can be pulled out quick in an instance.

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[Guest]

Post deleted by danfoley

 

[Davy_S]

I see what you mean, but I do not have any filters.! Perhaps I should have! I simply push a wooden bung into the hole inside the cockpit drains and its never popped out yet The boats a Vega. It works for me so I have always used it. Of course with different cockpit configerations it may not be as simple.

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[maxi]

Even for the experts, one size does not fit all. Solutions must be the one that best fits the circumstances.
Good practice does suggest crossed cockpit drains, but that was before high volume, high freeboard boats with shallow cockpits. Boats like the Mirage have direct (un crossed)drains and are absolutely fine.

Toggles are absolutely necessary where there is danger of a rigging screw becoming "girt" on the chain plate. The area of highest probablility here is the forestay where cross loads are the order of the day, shrouds are less at risk.

Do your own assessment and act accordingly. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If your surveyor points out one of these areas, insist that he also makes a statement to the effect that there is no evidence of damage associated - if that is true, of course.



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[kds]

Thank you all for your time and your opinions - appreciated.
Now on to my next problems - I seem to spend more time thinking than working while fitting out a new hull !

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[homa]

If crossing the cockpit drains is a problem why not fit them as you want... straight out with a non-return valve ? I know it's not ideal and means more maintenence..?

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[Guest]

Fit a valve ?

As my boat gives you wet feet when you open the throttle ...... as the drains dip below wash !! I have simple 1/4 turn lever valves in the aft locker to close 'em off. Simple.



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !