Sunstar 18 - info sought.

[bonny]

Hi All,
The wife went and did something really wacky the other day. She bought a Sunstar 18 bilge keeler.
Needs a bit of work doing on it and guess who's going to be the navvy!

We're not new to sailing, having started in 1997 with a Swift 18 and progressed through the sizes to a 39 footer, which we still have.

Why the impulse. Can't get into creeks with a 2 meter fin. We're looking forward to a bit of retro fun.

A bit of research has revealed it was designed by AC Howard of Leisure 17 fame and the resemblace is very evident.

There doesn't seem to be an anchor locker, only a void, presumably to store the anchor warp and chain, through a missing hauser. This void is accessible through a couple of vents in the forward cabin bulkhead but it appears to have no drain and would appear to be a gatherer of grime and water.

Additionally there is also a void under the cabin floor which is prone to collect water, extremely difficult to drain and impossible to clean.

Any information on this little boat would be well appreciated, how many built? sail area? Is the rigging the same as the Leisure 17 (appears similar), Onwers association?, how many still about?

Looking forward to the project and some fun.

Cheers guys.

 

[ianat182]

I believe that 'Gul1066' of this forum owns and sails one from Hythe(Southampton) so a PM to him might be useful.


ianat182

 

[VicS]

I'd guess its a anchor chain locker.

Fit a proper chain pipe to keep most of the water out ... but yes very likely to collect a bit of grime and water.

There is a Sunstar 18 in the yard... not sure if it has all chain or chain + rope. Need to get it right with a small boat as the weight of chain affects the trim of the boat ( my boat takes all chain)

The rig, IIRC, has cap shrouds and a single pair of lower shrouds. The spreaders are swept aft so that the caps go on the after most fixings while the lowers remain more or less in line with the mast ... I think the L17 is the same.

You should not get any water under the cabin sole if everything is water tight. Maybe its coming from the chain locker ??. ( I sealed off the space so that nothing can get under there in my boat)

 

[Downsman]

Hi, I've got a Sunstar 21 built early/mid '70's. It has the same anchor warp stowage as yours, mine's fitted with the traditional 'elbow' type chain pipe and I just feed the warp down the pipe by hand. 10 metres of 6mm chain spliced into 20 of 16mm anchor plait I find stows itself easily enough once it's fed into the pipe. I'm not sure but I think the locker drains to under the double skin of the cabin sole and runs right aft where in my boat anyway, I can mop it up by removing the cabin step and reaching under the cockpit sole.
In my boat the previous owner has cut a hole in the cabin sole immediately abaft the wooden frame on the deck between the fore cabin and the after area. He's fitted a large circular dinghy locker hatch which allows me to bail/mop any water up when I take the lid off. I cover the dinghy lid which is quite flush anyway with a piece of carpet tile and it causes no problems.
My boat has in mast main furling which works quite well and I use a 4hp Mariner outboard for getting about in the harbour/river.
I got caught in Rye Bay in a bit of an Easterly blow 5+ maybe, and ran round Beachy Head into Newhaven and I must say it is a very tough sea kindly little boat.
Not sure about owners association, not my style really but I do have some old pages from a 'Practical Boat Owner magazine' (I think) of the time the late Des Sleightholme did the original sea trial of the Sunstar 21 and he was impressed too with her seakeeping (You 'aint gonna win any races though)..
I'll see if I can dig those papers out and send you some copies if you'd care to pm a contact address and give me a few days leeway?..

Photo added..

 

[bonny]

Hi VicS,
Many thanks.
Thought it was a chain locker, does seep a bit through the bottom of the fron bulkhead into cabin (yuk).
Have managed to clean, wash, pump-out virtually all the mud/grime that was in there, but will probably open to re-glass.
Was wondering if it would benefit from a covered drain hole through hull thus making it self draining. Not checked yet how far above waterline the bottom of this locker is but could probably fit a false bottom. This is how my bigger yacht drains its' anchor locker!

The cabin sole is covered by an access chamber under the front cushion but seems to be missing a rubber seal - no bit deal, don't think there's any leaks but IMHO water always seems to find a way! Maybe I'm being a bit over-cautious.

 

[LittleSister]

According to an old Hoskyns Yacht Directories' Good Yacht Guide I have -

"Sunstar 18 -
18' 3" LOA
7' 2 1/2" BEAM
2' 4 1/2" (bilge keel) or 3' (fin) DRAUGHT
Popular and most successful of the Sun range from the early 1970s. A little bulbous and 'jelly-mould' for modern tastes. Sunstar performed well with a simple roomy interior and was strongly built. Along with the Leisure 17 they are not so popular now but often represent excellent value for a first boat...."

"One of a popular range of boats designed by Arthur C. Howard in early 1970s..... built by Intermarine"

By the way, according to this publication the 21 footer was called a Sunray.

 

[dylanwinter]

sounds like a keeper

the wife I mean

there can' be many around who would buy such a perfect creek crawler

dylan

 

[VicS]

B

y the way, according to this publication the 21 footer was called a Sunray

That's correct

There was 15ft Sunspot ..... Never seen one AFAIK.

18ft Sunstar ... seen one or two of those

21 Sunray .... neil S of these forums had one of those at one time

and a 27 ft Sunflair ... I have a friend with one of those

 

[Downsman]

By the way, according to this publication the 21 footer was called a Sunray.

Thanks for that LittleSister...I must be crackin' up! Vics told me that ages ago when I made the same mistake calling my 21 footer a Sun Star. Think it must be something in me Horlicks..

 

[alahol2]

One of these? Scroll down for specs.

 

[merlin3688]

The Leisure 17 has rigging of 4mm which is the size you would get on a 17/18' boat. I have looked for other detail on the Sunstar 18 but with no luck. Someone like Z Spars would certanly have rig plans and if you needed a new rig would give you more detail! We are also looking for a little boat to explore the creeks, living on the east Coast has so many!

 

[mikhalis]

If it's the one in Hampshire on ebay the other day, it looks like you did well with that purchase. Even if it's a different boat, the Sunspot, Leisure 17, Sunstar and Sunray are a great set of small bilge keel designs, each filling a slightly different niche in the 15-21' range. Sure you'll have lots of depth restricted fun with your Sunstar. The four original designs did share that retro 'jellymould' kind of appearance, which although not to everyone's taste, does give each of the cabins a substantial amount of room relative to their LOA.

Most of us budget raggies would probably recognise the Leisure 17, the ubiquitous trailer sailer just about suitable for 2 adults and 2 kids (that get on well and like camping) for the occasional overnight / weekend . A lot might well have seen a Sunspot at some time but probably just thought it was a Leisure 17. They look very, very similar, just like a scaled down Leisure; if the sails aren't up it can be difficult to tell the two apart from a distance. I've got an early Sunspot and they're a fun little boat, great for rivers or lakes and certainly feels a bit more substantial than some of the more modern 15' microyachts appear. Although it's okay for one person on their own overnighting, two onboard would be quite difficult. The fact that it too was marketed as a theoretical family 4 berth is more than a little optimistic!

The Sunstar on the other hand gives you a bit more space than the L17, without making it a lot heavier. Both the L17 and Sunstar are around the 0.75 ton mark afaik. Although I've never seen a Sunray at first hand, pictures online suggest that they are pretty cavernous for their 21' length but they're much heavier. At 27' LOA, the Sunflair's a lot bigger still and not a trailer sailer like the other four, still a great boat though from what I've seen.

Unlike the L17, information on the other AC Howard designs is pretty thin on the ground and some appears totally contradictory. Still don't know for sure what the Sunspot weighs in at. Never come across an owners' association or specific web group for the Sun range yet i think that owners do develop a certain affection and respect for these boats. Sure you'll have loads of fun with your Sunstar.

 

[Seajet]

700lbs of ballast on an 18' is quite impressive !

 

[Lakesailor]

My Foxcub had a similar void under the saloon sole. A bilge pump with a tube fed under from further aft with a small strum box on the end solved the leaks problem (from the windows, I think. I couldn't be bothered to redo them).
If there is an access hatch one of those plastic bilge sucker pumps for about £15 will do the business.

 

[northwind]

I love these old brochures, thanks for posting it.

I especially love the way they show the bodies using the beds, (it looks like they intend you to sleep on your side only!!)

 

[Bajansailor]

Here is a copy of the Sun Yachts range catalogue from 1974 :

As we have owners of Sunspots and Sunrays on here as well, here are the data sheets for these two yachts :

And a report from the January 1971 issue of Yachting Monthly re the Sunray :

The Builder's list prices for complete boats (with 'deluxe' prices in brackets) in July 1974 were :

Sunspot 15 - GBP 795 (935)

Sunstar 18 (bilge) - GBP 1,225 (1,363)

Sunstar 18 (fin) - GBP 1,275 (1,413)

Sunray 21 - GBP 1,975 (2,500).

The deluxe version includes a choice of hull colour.

These prices were ex VAT - I think it was around this time (1974) when VAT was put up to 25%?

 

[bonny]

Wow, what a response.

Many thanks to everyone, you have all added valued information. I had found some barely readable sheets on the web but no real details.
Many thanks to all who have posted more readable sheets and especially to "bajansailor" for the complete brochure. - You'll not catch my missus decorating the deck like the brochure, and I'm not sure about the "average family car" shown. Seems like a typical 60/70's brochure.

Thanks to Downsman for the offer but I guess it's what's been posted above.

alahol2 - yes, just like that.

mikhalis - yes, on ebay last week near Southampton. Came with 2 7.5HP outboards - bit over powered me thinks, but I do have a 5HP.

Spent some time today checking the chain locker, was yucky, and seeping into cabin. Ripped out the bulkhead, which was thin ply coated on the cabin side with GRP. behind it was rotten at the bottom. The seat base continues right forward to the bow and the reason for the seepage was clearly due to the bulkhead being pooly glassed to it - came cleanly off the gelcoat.

The nav lights were mounted on the cabin sides and I'm planning on moving these to the plates on the pulpit.

Looks like this is going to be a project that will take some time - no such thing as a simple job, hey ho!

The mainsails' a bit shot, will probably need to source another.

Is it just me or do all old sails suffer from wrinkled luffs, presumably due to bolt-rope shrinkage?

 

[VicS]

Many thanks to everyone, you have all added valued information. I had found some barely readable sheets on the web but no real details.
Many thanks to all who have posted more readable sheets and especially to "bajansailor" for the complete brochure. - You'll not catch my missus decorating the deck like the brochure, and I'm not sure about the "average family car" shown. Seems like a typical 60/70's brochure.

Thanks to Downsman for the offer but I guess it's what's been posted above.

alahol2 - yes, just like that.

mikhalis - yes, on ebay last week near Southampton. Came with 2 7.5HP outboards - bit over powered me thinks, but I do have a 5HP.

Spent some time today checking the chain locker, was yucky, and seeping into cabin. Ripped out the bulkhead, which was thin ply coated on the cabin side with GRP. behind it was rotten at the bottom. The seat base continues right forward to the bow and the reason for the seepage was clearly due to the bulkhead being pooly glassed to it - came cleanly off the gelcoat.

The nav lights were mounted on the cabin sides and I'm planning on moving these to the plates on the pulpit.

Looks like this is going to be a project that will take some time - no such thing as a simple job, hey ho!

The mainsails' a bit shot, will probably need to source another.

Is it just me or do all old sails suffer from wrinkled luffs, presumably due to bolt-rope shrinkage?

The bulkhead that forms my chain locker is GRP coated on the front face to protect it from the chain. Varnished on the cabin side.
The berth moulding does not go right forward, the bulkhead goes down to the hull but since the filler pipe for the water tank goes down there too any water from the chain does drain under the forward bunks. I try to let it drain on deck before stowing it as much as possible

Personally I deliberately put my side lights on the cabin sides rather than the pulpit. They dont get bashed in marinas if they're on the cabin sides! Too vulnerable for my liking on the pulpit.

My sails have wrinkled luffs but when tensioned the bolt ropes seem to stretch and pull them out OK. Always been that way from new.

5hp should be adequate esp if it has a high thrust/"sail" prop. I have 6hp on my Sea Wych now but originally I only had the 5 hp supplied for the boat.

 

[bonny]

The bulkhead that forms my chain locker is GRP coated on the front face to protect it from the chain. Varnished on the cabin side.
The berth moulding does not go right forward, the bulkhead goes down to the hull but since the filler pipe for the water tank goes down there too any water from the chain does drain under the forward bunks. I try to let it drain on deck before stowing it as much as possible

Personally I deliberately put my side lights on the cabin sides rather than the pulpit. They dont get bashed in marinas if they're on the cabin sides! Too vulnerable for my liking on the pulpit.

My sails have wrinkled luffs but when tensioned the bolt ropes seem to stretch and pull them out OK. Always been that way from new.

5hp should be adequate esp if it has a high thrust/"sail" prop. I have 6hp on my Sea Wych now but originally I only had the 5 hp supplied for the boat.

Sounds like yours was better manufactured.
The chain locker bulkhead on mine was definately bare ply on the forward locker side and white painted GRP in the cabin. There was also a vertical support approx 1x1" (also rotting) in the middle of the bulkhead (cabin side). Not sure what it's purpose is because is rests on the thin seat/bunk which is hollow underneath.
Above it (on deck) is a raised flat section which has had something - not sure what fitted. Could this have been a samson post? If so a new one has been fitted slightly further forward - needs better re-inforcement below as do the hoops for the forestay & jib strop. There is also a filled hole in the deck just forward of this on the starboard side, maybe this was where the hawse pipe was.
Everything seems so small and whimpy (cute) to me, but then I'm used to bigger craft gear with considerably higher stresses.

Good point re the cabin nav lights, all my other boats have had them (or it - dual) on the pulpit.

For info sail number seems to be 164.

 

[VicS]

Sounds like yours was better manufactured.
The chain locker bulkhead on mine was definately bare ply on the forward locker side and white painted GRP in the cabin. There was also a vertical support approx 1x1" (also rotting) in the middle of the bulkhead (cabin side). Not sure what it's purpose is because is rests on the thin seat/bunk which is hollow underneath.
Above it (on deck) is a raised flat section which has had something - not sure what fitted. Could this have been a samson post? If so a new one has been fitted slightly further forward - needs better re-inforcement below as do the hoops for the forestay & jib strop. There is also a filled hole in the deck just forward of this on the starboard side, maybe this was where the hawse pipe was.
Everything seems so small and whimpy (cute) to me, but then I'm used to bigger craft gear with considerably higher stresses.

Good point re the cabin nav lights, all my other boats have had them (or it - dual) on the pulpit.

For info sail number seems to be 164.

My boat is a Sea Wych very similar in many respects and from the same era. I built mine from a kit


It sounds as though your foredeck is like mine with a imitation king plank down the middle. Reinforced according to the original brochure
It does have a chain bollard about half way down. (See picture) I am pretty sure the Sunstar I know has something similar.



You can also see the chain pipe.

(A hawse pipe is the pipe through which the hawser or chain passes in the side or bulwark of a ship.

A more correct name therefore may be a spurling pipe or navel pipe. The pipe through which the chain passes on its way to the chain locker. Alternatively perhaps simply a chain pipe.)

My stem head fitting is bolted through the same raised section but I put a block of hardwood on the inside as well so I know that's well reinforced.

If i go down to the yard this coming weekend, I ought to as I have some work to do on my boat which I have not launched this year, I'll take a look at the Sunstar I know (in fact i think there may be more than one) if its been brought in .. which it probably has because the owner is going into hospital very shortly. If he is about I'll ask a few questions too.