Sunseeker have a new CEO.... Again

It will be interesting to see how KPS get on with Princess. They seem to be a group that focus on manufacturing rather than pretty things.

There is undoubtedly a lot of work to be done, I’ve heard talk of up to 1,000 people not actively involved in building the boats being removed and there is a vast inventory of industrial space that needs re-purposing.

It won’t happen over night and the wheels need to keep turning whilst change happens.

Boats of the type made in the UK are never intended for mass market. Princess make 250 boats per year worldwide and they would find it hard to ramp up numbers, so better to maximise return on the units you do build.

I wholeheartedly agree that prices are riding at a much higher level than inflation. Our own boat ordered in 2021 and delivered has shot up - and also grown from a 55 (that’s 58 ft) to a 58 (that’s 59ft 8in). Those 20 inches have added well over a million pounds to the price.

Of course there will be parts of the economy that boom and those lucky people will have money to burn. There’s no doubt that the Princess (I mention them because I know them well) product stands close scrutiny on a world stage.

Henry
 
ontheplane said:
I disagree with Vertical integration in the Motor industry though - the two most prolific exponents, Tesla and BYD are the ONLY companies making significant profits on EV's for example - Tesla's problems at the moment is more about their most famous leader not the actual product.... that is profitable.

But I would suspect you are right for boats - vertical integration works when you have a very high quantity....
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Most of Tesla’s profits are driven by competitors buying carbon credits off them, not from vehicle sales. I can’t comment on BYD or other Chinese companies, because there is no transparency in their financials.
 
henryf said:
Of course there will be parts of the economy that boom and those lucky people will have money to burn. There’s no doubt that the Princess (I mention them because I know them well) product stands close scrutiny on a world stage.

Henry
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I saw a newsprint the other day, from the Swedish boat manufacturers and dealers association where he said that the industry is seeing a big return towards sub forty foot boats with outboards, as boats have become too expensive. The thirty foot bracket seems to be hottest. Scandinavia is a very hot market for the Brits, probably more to Princess and Fairline then Sunseeker.
To be fair it's a trend also seen here.

With cruising reduced a lot in the last decade or so, marina prices doubling up after Covid, buying a forty to fifty foot boat does not make sense as it used to be. It is a growing trend.
 
I still don’t understand , why the big three left the making of small boats , and move on to boats for the very rich
A few people I know who started say with a 22 ft and work up the size with the same company. Which brings faithful customers back again. This comment where they don’t make money on small craft. Well the frogs do.
 
Seastoke said:
I still don’t understand , why the big three left the making of small boats , and move on to boats for the very rich
A few people I know who started say with a 22 ft and work up the size with the same company. Which brings faithful customers back again. This comment where they don’t make money on small craft. Well the frogs do.
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how many boaters start with a 50ft + boat now ? I know a small amount do but the majority can’t afford to and now the mainstream manufacturers don’t build anything suitable for first time boaters it’s no wonder they’re struggling to get new customers on board, that alongside the marinas taking the p*** with berthing fees it look like things will have to change once the current generation retire from boating, if things get more sensible I would consider getting back into boating but when I do it’s more likely to be abroad where berthing is a realistic price and weather is suitable for boating.
 
Seastoke said:
I still don’t understand , why the big three left the making of small boats , and move on to boats for the very rich
A few people I know who started say with a 22 ft and work up the size with the same company. Which brings faithful customers back again. This comment where they don’t make money on small craft. Well the frogs do.
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The reason is that a few sales, can cover your whole year at least in gross sales numbers (the profit from this is another), although manufacturing these bigger boats is much complicated to a 30 feet outboard boat.

US has a surge in sub-forty/fifty foot boat building (most in the Center-Console format) as not seen since the sixties.
The difference to the sixties is that most of the them are small shops who have a production sub 50 boats a year, and most are happy to stay that way.
 
PowerYachtBlog said:
The reason is that a few sales, can cover your whole year at least in gross sales numbers (the profit from this is another), although manufacturing these bigger boats is much complicated to a 30 feet outboard boat.

US has a surge in sub-forty/fifty foot boat building (most in the Center-Console format) as not seen since the sixties.
The difference to the sixties is that most of the them are small shops who have a production sub 50 boats a year, and most are happy to stay that way.
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Yes I see that but, lose a few enquiries for a new boat and future is gloom, to grow big you need success in previous life. Ok let’s say Seatang , who have great reputation , decide to build a 60 ft , say 2 mil , would they be successful . Why ask me I don’t know.
 
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PowerYachtBlog said:
I saw a newsprint the other day, from the Swedish boat manufacturers and dealers association where he said that the industry is seeing a big return towards sub forty foot boats with outboards, as boats have become too expensive. The thirty foot bracket seems to be hottest. Scandinavia is a very hot market for the Brits, probably more to Princess and Fairline then Sunseeker.
To be fair it's a trend also seen here.

With cruising reduced a lot in the last decade or so, marina prices doubling up after Covid, buying a forty to fifty foot boat does not make sense as it used to be. It is a growing trend.
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As you know, I sell a range of Fairline parts. After the Brits, the Maltese are probably one of my largest markets.
 
petem said:
As you know, I sell a range of Fairline parts. After the Brits, the Maltese are probably one of my largest markets.
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Nineties to Noughties Fairline and Princess are common and popular in Malta, probably in more then any other place outside of Britain.
The Anglo-saxon influence of British ruling still holds in the heart of some or many Maltese....

But to be fair, the like of the thirty Targa 43 or so based locally, none of them came new, and I could say similar to other noughties models, when Fairline started to lose its grip, because the £ got stronger, and the boats more expensive to the competition.
 
Boat2016 said:
I would sincerely hope they don’t follow the Italians, their engineering skills are very poor when it comes to boat building, I have worked in the industry for many years before retiring to see where the skills are.

You seem to post a lot here about boat building, surprised they haven’t got a forum team together to save the uk boat building industry ? There seems to be a lot of speculation on here as to how they’re all doing it wrong, it’s a totally different perspective when looking at it from the customer/boat owner side to actually producing boats, the bottom line is they are now way too expensive and looking back at all the British boat builders they all did very well before the private equity lot got their claws into things and instantly inflated figures to get more when they were obviously never going to get it long term, look how many times these businesses have changed hands recently getting passed around compared to their early years in founder ownership, there appears to be a common pattern here.

Too many people keep comparing boat building to the motor industry but there’s no similarity at all, totally different manufacturing processes.
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Keeping things simple here for me, are UK manufacturing overheads causing an issue?? I see we appear to have the highest industrial energy prices in the developed world? Would you say it's a combination of PE gouging and the sheer expense of manufacturing any kind of volume in the UK? (Just a hunch here..)

I've seen brands struggle in certain eras with quality but overall from what I've seen, Sunseeker, Princess and Fairline are a (comparabile) quality product in 2026, and as far as I can see they all retain good reputations, so the product (to me) doesn't seem much of an issue.
 
Fire99 said:
Keeping things simple here for me, are UK manufacturing overheads causing an issue?? I see we appear to have the highest industrial energy prices in the developed world? Would you say it's a combination of PE gouging and the sheer expense of manufacturing any kind of volume in the UK? (Just a hunch here..)

I've seen brands struggle in certain eras with quality but overall from what I've seen, Sunseeker, Princess and Fairline are a (comparabile) quality product in 2026, and as far as I can see they all retain good reputations, so the product (to me) doesn't seem much of an issue.
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Fixed costs like utilities, leasing, cost of employment, business rates are all very high in the UK. However, if we choose to manufacture the right things, that require innovation, accuracy, consistency, then the UK is competitive. Airbus manufacturers nearly all its wing sets in the UK. We have the skills and technology to do so. JLR has consistently made a good margin on their products, or they did until the cyber attack crippled them for 6 months. We are really good at making medical equipment and pharmaceuticals. All high margin products. There are lots of things that it makes no sense to manufacture here too. Of course we can have successful leisure boat manufacturers, but they must wake up to re engineering their manufacturing processes. Make or buy decisions must change.
 
Fire99 said:
Keeping things simple here for me, are UK manufacturing overheads causing an issue??
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The biggest problem is imo now the lack of ecosystem in the UK.

One manufacture can’t standalone and do everything in house (unless you’re stupid like Princess).

Steel mills feeds lasers and press brake shops, who feed finishing plants.
Component distributors feed electronic assemblers who are supplied by PCB makers.
And so on.

The problem is that there is barely enough industry left in the UK to support a complete ecosystem. Tata steel are just about hanging on.
Getting anodising and zinc plating done in the UK is a nightmare.
There are almost no UK PCB manufacturers left.

In China my CNC man can make parts in the morning, walk 100 yards down the street and get said parts anodised whilst he waits.

In the UK the turnaround time is a week if they will take your order at all.

In China a PCB from JLCPCB cost £2 and is delivered to the UK in 72 hours.
In the UK the same PCB costs £100 and takes a week to arrive.

The decline is terminal 😔
 
Yes because all the idiots who want to make us green , will buy Chinese products ie electric cars , where in manufacturing ,is coal fired power and maybe poor working conditions , I could be wrong.
 
Fire99 said:
Keeping things simple here for me, are UK manufacturing overheads causing an issue?? I see we appear to have the highest industrial energy prices in the developed world? Would you say it's a combination of PE gouging and the sheer expense of manufacturing any kind of volume in the UK? (Just a hunch here..)

I've seen brands struggle in certain eras with quality but overall from what I've seen, Sunseeker, Princess and Fairline are a (comparabile) quality product in 2026, and as far as I can see they all retain good reputations, so the product (to me) doesn't seem much of an issue.
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It's the other way round. PE has been funding the losses made by Sunseeker, Princess and Fairline for many years.
 
Pete is right. The PE providers really cant be accused of gouging ! The companies have no material assets to stick lots of debt on and they all loose shed loads of cash.

I assume someone at each PE provider likes the idea of owning a boat brand!

The cost escalations have been huge. They need to find ways of knocking vast lumps of costs out of the product.

When Derek Carter was in charge of fairline post finical crash he sampled the boats - hardtops gone - ragtop back etc simply to reduce the cost and hence selling price.

They are putting in levels of craftsman ship / costs ( pick your word) that most end users cant justify. Volumes fall and the problem gets worse. They have to get costs down and volume up and they will make money.

At present they are all on a path to oblivion. Bear in mind we have had a long period on interest rates that were basically nil - and they were still loosing money. the economies have got worse - labour ./ tax / interest rates / energy etc so I dont see they have anywhere to go other than radical plans.
 
Interesting chaps.. I may have mentioned this before but is there any mileage (excuse the pun) in moving some manufacturing overseas?
I've recently been reading Tony Flemming's memoirs and the era of him starting Fleming (with Anton) and all the struggles, plus manufacturing in Taiwan plus an ultimately failed attempt in Mexico are fascinating reads.
For brands like Sunseeker / Fairline / Princess etc, is the UK becoming unsustainable for them or would sending at least some manufacturing overseas be detrimental to the brands?
 
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