julians
Well-Known Member
You've just described my typical day in mallorca, aside from adding in a bit of wakeboarding.
Sunseeker 80 knot boat
- Thread starter Ian h
- Start date
You've just described my typical day in mallorca, aside from adding in a bit of wakeboarding.
Ian h
Well-Known Member
Its not all about outright top speed, I agree that US boats are quicker but do you see very many over here ?? NOPE because most of them run with Petrols . very few leisure boaters could afford to run them here.
The XS2000 never really took off as was based on a race boat and no luxury . Hunton were quicker and better handling than most UK built boats and had a touch of style to go with it. To be honest if you had a 100mph + boat in the UK how many days per year would the sea conditions actually let you run it that fast. The majority of times I go out we can hit 50 mph comfortably however its just as nice to cruise around 40 -45. much more comfortable. This is where Hunton were good.
The British 3 are looking at building a fastish day boat that is a bit of fun but also is not basic , Good luck to all of them and the coming months / year will be interesting to see what each of them brings to the table and how well they sell.
The XSMG was launched as a 100mph boat and never achieved anything like that speed. Was actually slower than the XRS Hunton 43.
Then we have all forgotten the Ice Marine Blade Runner - What happened to them ?
But what does the buyer actually want.?? If you had £300k - £500k to spend on a quick day boat what would you be looking for length wise and speed wise ? And what would you hope to have it include in the way of accommodation / facilities ?
AS Z1ppy says Sunseeker are very good at the PR side.
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MeaCulpa
Member
If I were a considerably richer man and had a nice place by the Mediterranean and wanted a day boat of some substance but still something you could single hand I’d go with a Baia one 43 if speed wasn’t a priority but sociable space (Baia is out of business now? The One seemed to sell well but, IMO, wasn’t in the league of the Baia 48 (flash?) or the rest of the range), if style was paramount it would obviously be a Riva, if in the mood for a true wavecrusher either a Iitama or, my personal all time favourite boat, a Magnum 44 Banzai. Shame that Monte Carlo Offshore isn’t around anymore, the 32 was pretty sweet, but as a substitute, and a true outsider in the med, a Nor-Tech 420 mc either with the sane fiat/mercruiser diesels giving around 65-70 knots or with the less sane Supercharged mercruisers @ 700 hp each giving a top speed of 85+ knots.
Anyways, I’d imagine that S/S has very little to contribute on the performance front so luxury should be the name of the game, I personally believe that luxury at 80 knots while crossing water is pretty hard to obtain this side of an EC145. The engine choices to obtain those speeds without going really light weight and skinny is also severely limited in Europe due to emissions regulations so the US approach of just fitting a couple of big blocks producing 1000hp won’t cut it.
Anyways, I’d imagine that S/S has very little to contribute on the performance front so luxury should be the name of the game, I personally believe that luxury at 80 knots while crossing water is pretty hard to obtain this side of an EC145. The engine choices to obtain those speeds without going really light weight and skinny is also severely limited in Europe due to emissions regulations so the US approach of just fitting a couple of big blocks producing 1000hp won’t cut it.
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Portofino
Well-Known Member
Agree ^ above .
If they have rented ( from there Med base ) or used a boat then they will realise this 3 essentials to Med day boat living
Huge social sun pad .
Huge cockpit with table seating
Huge bathing platform
The above are a must
Reflect a mo on the Riva 44 or 52 ——— it falls down on those three .
Style ,pace n grace stunning headturning looks and if poss big engines and a deep V hull - as well which those on the list have ,but without my 3 short list then it will not work .
I specced up a Magnum 44 it was just shy of £1m on the water .
Otam and the Wally are other prospects that fits above criteria and my 3 musts that need adding on to the list .
But you are right if you peel away the mainstream “floating caravans “ at Cannes / Genoa shows and look a bit deeper there’s a lot of serious heavy duty tackle out there occupying the Med property owners plaything / day boat role .
Actually the FL proposed spec of VP D sterndrive something or other and 33 ft maybe aimed at a lower end ,budget end of the spectrum
Prinny ,s hull looks like a long / slim thing with shallow deadrise ,so will fall at those 3 I listed as well off waves
Of course not sure what SS are gonna do ,but let’s put it this way there’s more fat on that duck to chuck £££ in and a history with surface drives ,, as all ready said from a marketing POV they allways seem to land suny side up .
Recent Predator range has morphed into plastic fantastic caravans with loadsa glass urgh !
So for them there is a gap that’s opened up of a return to a full on performance cruiser perhaps the smaller version fitting the day boat role .I,am betting they are introducing a new whole range / line
Thinking of the Evoque and the Jag X pace -
Pophams not daft .
Anybody guess what this is and how much ?
https://imgur.com/a/Xqzp0
If they have rented ( from there Med base ) or used a boat then they will realise this 3 essentials to Med day boat living
Huge social sun pad .
Huge cockpit with table seating
Huge bathing platform
The above are a must
Reflect a mo on the Riva 44 or 52 ——— it falls down on those three .
Style ,pace n grace stunning headturning looks and if poss big engines and a deep V hull - as well which those on the list have ,but without my 3 short list then it will not work .
I specced up a Magnum 44 it was just shy of £1m on the water .
Otam and the Wally are other prospects that fits above criteria and my 3 musts that need adding on to the list .
But you are right if you peel away the mainstream “floating caravans “ at Cannes / Genoa shows and look a bit deeper there’s a lot of serious heavy duty tackle out there occupying the Med property owners plaything / day boat role .
Actually the FL proposed spec of VP D sterndrive something or other and 33 ft maybe aimed at a lower end ,budget end of the spectrum
Prinny ,s hull looks like a long / slim thing with shallow deadrise ,so will fall at those 3 I listed as well off waves
Of course not sure what SS are gonna do ,but let’s put it this way there’s more fat on that duck to chuck £££ in and a history with surface drives ,, as all ready said from a marketing POV they allways seem to land suny side up .
Recent Predator range has morphed into plastic fantastic caravans with loadsa glass urgh !
So for them there is a gap that’s opened up of a return to a full on performance cruiser perhaps the smaller version fitting the day boat role .I,am betting they are introducing a new whole range / line
Thinking of the Evoque and the Jag X pace -
Pophams not daft .
Anybody guess what this is and how much ?
https://imgur.com/a/Xqzp0
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MapisM
Well-Known Member
No idea about how much, but anything with the Baglietto logo on the fender sockets is going to be expensive, I reckon...
Portofino
Well-Known Member
No idea about how much, but anything with the Baglietto logo on the fender sockets is going to be expensive, I reckon...
Well spotted - 3 million not sure which currency —- but does it matter
at this level ?Ok extreme example ,but just to illustrate what’s about in the rarified UBER rich day boat / play thing market by established players .
PYB knows more - hopefully he will be along soon .
Well best of British to the U.K. three :encouragement:
MapisM
Well-Known Member
I just had a look at a new clip recently posted by one of my favourite US builders of fast toys, i.e. DCB.
And this thread popped to my mind, because the video puts the title in perspective.
In fact, this is a relatively sedate version of their 31' catamaran, powered by naturally aspirated engines.
The very same boat can also be powered by twin turboed engines, go figure...
And this thread popped to my mind, because the video puts the title in perspective.
In fact, this is a relatively sedate version of their 31' catamaran, powered by naturally aspirated engines.
The very same boat can also be powered by twin turboed engines, go figure...
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Lake boat - even then it bobs about .
As ianh says “ you don,t see many about “ ——- US nutter speed stuff .
As I said in another thread P more than happy for YOU to rock up to my Cannes / Calvi chalange in one of those .
10 consecutive runs , one run (100 miles ) each day for 10 days you choose the start day .Day 1
6 pax minimum and live on the boat for 10 days too .Test out the overnight ability may as well do a thorough test
After all let’s keep the costs down - mate - no point booking into a Cannes seafront hotel in the high season 6 pax 10 nights - nah !
How long are we gonna have to hang around ? For you guys to choose the window ? If you have gone down the hotel route - ——- ? Glad I won,t be picking that tab up .
Bit short on Med day boat 3 essentials imho - larger the better = bathing flatform , sun pads and cockpit table sitting space .
As well as comparing aggregate times after the event assuming that boat finishers we can compare fuel bills too .
Seriously there are a few hot US petrol powered mono hull s I’ve seen operating in the bay of St Trop .
Donzi 43 and “Cigarette “ v similiar boats .
Problem is the wind gets up in the afternoon so it’s a wet and very bumpy - not so fast now -ride home .
At anchor they pick nic cos no social table to set up and get round .
There’s no where for them to ALL to lie down , climbing in out of the sea is a phaff too .
They seem to fanny on with a sheet and poles to construct a binimi substitute, which keeps blowing down by 2 pm ,such is the breeze by then .
As ianh says “ you don,t see many about “ ——- US nutter speed stuff .
As I said in another thread P more than happy for YOU to rock up to my Cannes / Calvi chalange in one of those .
10 consecutive runs , one run (100 miles ) each day for 10 days you choose the start day .Day 1
6 pax minimum and live on the boat for 10 days too .Test out the overnight ability may as well do a thorough test
After all let’s keep the costs down - mate - no point booking into a Cannes seafront hotel in the high season
6 pax 10 nights - nah ! How long are we gonna have to hang around ? For you guys to choose the window ? If you have gone down the hotel route - ——- ? Glad I won,t be picking that tab up .
Bit short on Med day boat 3 essentials imho - larger the better = bathing flatform , sun pads and cockpit table sitting space .
As well as comparing aggregate times after the event assuming that boat finishers we can compare fuel bills too .
Seriously there are a few hot US petrol powered mono hull s I’ve seen operating in the bay of St Trop .
Donzi 43 and “Cigarette “ v similiar boats .
Problem is the wind gets up in the afternoon so it’s a wet and very bumpy - not so fast now -ride home .
At anchor they pick nic cos no social table to set up and get round .
There’s no where for them to ALL to lie down , climbing in out of the sea is a phaff too .
They seem to fanny on with a sheet and poles to construct a binimi substitute, which keeps blowing down by 2 pm ,such is the breeze by then .
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PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
Well spotted - 3 million not sure which currency —- but does it matter
Ok extreme example ,but just to illustrate what’s about in the rarified UBER rich day boat / play thing market by established players .
PYB knows more - hopefully he will be along soon .
Well best of British to the U.K. three :encouragement:
New Baglietto MV19 costs about three million. But its fully custom built to order boat made of alloy. You really cannot compare it to a production GRP boat IMO.
The smaller MV13 costs about 1.5 million. Sold to Lapo Elkan the trouble maker of the Fiat Family.
https://youtu.be/YbWThAD3dws
It berths in Spezia and he uses it to go to Sardinia Ibiza and Corsica etc
Here is a video of the MV19 https://youtu.be/SW4rh8dyUaQ
As for the diesel versus petrol comment I know for sure that all US powered boats can be diesel powered. Cigarette has it off the spec on some models.
Re Baia, its a bit of a Neapolitan story there. They closed because they could not agree with the Unions on payments re employees and wanted to keep a skeleton staff.
The One was a success as was the Flash. One sold thirty plus units, 48 Flash a hundred plus becoming Baia's best ever selling model. The Flash was everything you want from a fast cruiser, comfort, sleek and fast especially the recent units with 575hp models. Also very good consumption to the nm.
I think it is fair to compare the One with the previous 43' model ie the Zero which had discreet success and sold less to twenty units.
The Zero is your traditional Med cruiser and part of its not so success was that it was shaft drive only available and had a low thirties speed.
Twenty units for Baia was a good number unlike a Fairline and a Princess because the yard produced from 20 to 30 boats a year.
petem
Well-Known Member
Lake boat - even then it bobs about .
As ianh says “ you don,t see many about “ ——- US nutter speed stuff .
As I said in another thread P more than happy for YOU to rock up to my Cannes / Calvi chalange in one of those .
10 consecutive runs , one run (100 miles ) each day for 10 days you choose the start day .Day 1
6 pax minimum and live on the boat for 10 days too .Test out the overnight ability may as well do a thorough test
After all let’s keep the costs down - mate - no point booking into a Cannes seafront hotel in the high season
How long are we gonna have to hang around ? For you guys to choose the window ? If you have gone down the hotel route - ——- ? Glad I won,t be picking that tab up .
Bit short on Med day boat 3 essentials imho - larger the better = bathing flatform , sun pads and cockpit table sitting space .
As well as comparing aggregate times after the event assuming that boat finishers we can compare fuel bills too .
Seriously there are a few hot US petrol powered mono hull s I’ve seen operating in the bay of St Trop .
Donzi 43 and “Cigarette “ v similiar boats .
Problem is the wind gets up in the afternoon so it’s a wet and very bumpy - not so fast now -ride home .
At anchor they pick nic cos no social table to set up and get round .
There’s no where for them to ALL to lie down , climbing in out of the sea is a phaff too .
They seem to fanny on with a sheet and poles to construct a binimi substitute, which keeps blowing down by 2 pm ,such is the breeze by then .
Porto, I'm confused by your posts. Earlier you said that the fastest day boat will sell the most. Now you're saying it has to have certain practicalities (e.g. large bathing platform and sociable table) that I fear are incompatible with an 80kt top speed. And you're even adding in the requirement to sleep on board too. So it seems like you're making the same argument as me, i.e. that boats with accommodation that facilitates proper living on board (e.g. including a proper galley) are better than the boats that are being discussed here which are fast day boats with token accommodation.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Nice vids - wondered were the Genoa boat went .
We were pulled up on our del trip by a Baglietto of similiar size / shape - sporting Guardia Finanza decals and armed uniformed guys .
Just lurking out side Roma .
It charged at us from the stb beam as we were bombing N .
Initially a silhouette , we were under no illusions to heave too .
Just for balance adding info - they do commercial patrol boat stuff as well .
Thread drift there bigger stuff is rapid too .
They do a massive “fast “ yup they call it fast super Yacht .
This thing here
https://www.boatinternational.com/y...baglietto-43m-fast-superyacht-for-sale--27321
I had a tussle with one last year .
We both were anchored me and him I’m a bay off the Esteral Mountain s - just the two of us alone ( we were there 1st btw ‘ )
@ about 3pm they started to pack up and prepare to go .
I thought great - we will wait give it a sporting head start then overtake it on the way back to Cannes - about a 30 min run
Up came his anchor , bow thrusters to turn toward Cannes ( you could eyeball ) near the shore he poottled further out .
Up came my anchor , i shadowed it may be 1/4 mike astern , - waiting to get a bit further out before making my move hand on throttles ready -
Then all of a sudden - whoosh !
Never seen something that big accelerate so quickly.
I could NOT close him down ,he got the jump on me and was off max speed to Cannes , was over 30 ‘knots , but not enough sea room for me catch him .
He caught me napping .
Well impressed - somthing that big so fast .
I know childish before anybody comments - handsup
We were pulled up on our del trip by a Baglietto of similiar size / shape - sporting Guardia Finanza decals and armed uniformed guys .
Just lurking out side Roma .
It charged at us from the stb beam as we were bombing N .
Initially a silhouette , we were under no illusions to heave too .
Just for balance adding info - they do commercial patrol boat stuff as well .
Thread drift there bigger stuff is rapid too .
They do a massive “fast “ yup they call it fast super Yacht .
This thing here
https://www.boatinternational.com/y...baglietto-43m-fast-superyacht-for-sale--27321
I had a tussle with one last year .
We both were anchored me and him I’m a bay off the Esteral Mountain s - just the two of us alone ( we were there 1st btw ‘ )
@ about 3pm they started to pack up and prepare to go .
I thought great - we will wait give it a sporting head start then overtake it on the way back to Cannes - about a 30 min run
Up came his anchor , bow thrusters to turn toward Cannes ( you could eyeball ) near the shore he poottled further out .
Up came my anchor , i shadowed it may be 1/4 mike astern , - waiting to get a bit further out before making my move hand on throttles ready -
Then all of a sudden - whoosh !
Never seen something that big accelerate so quickly.
I could NOT close him down ,he got the jump on me and was off max speed to Cannes , was over 30 ‘knots , but not enough sea room for me catch him .
He caught me napping .
Well impressed - somthing that big so fast .
I know childish before anybody comments - hands
up
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MapisM
Well-Known Member
More than likely, they were on one of the so called "V.2000" class patrol boats.
Built by Baglietto and Itermarine, Seatek powered, good for 45 kts and strong enough for wave crushing up to a point where it's the crew that can't withstand the conditions anymore...
GdF indeed has always been an interesting market for Italian boatbuilders.
During the history of the corp, they exploited just about all the best competences in building fast, all-weather boats that the Country had to offer.
Baglietto, Intermarine, Italcraft, Moschini, Buzzi, and also others.
One of their most famous vessels ever is the "Meattini" class of the 70s: a Baglietto design, built also by several other yards afterwards.
20m worth of MAHOGANY hull, whose seaworthiness was allegedly beyond human imagination.
Her W18 CRM engines were good for "only" 35kts max, but with a 26kts range of 1200Nm.
Yes, twelve hundreds at cruising speed, not a typo! "You can run but you can't hide" springs to mind...!
And interestingly, Baglietto built also a version for the pleasure boat market, IIRC with more civilized DD engines - see example below.
One of them has been sitting unused in CF for years, but I recently understood that a local master carpenter, who already won a prize for the restoration of a sailboat originally built in 1893 for commercial transports, is going to bring her back to former glory. We'll see, hopefully I will be able to post some pics in the future...
All that said, I think it's fair to include in this small Baglietto tribute (with apologies to the OP for the o/t, but I didn't start it!) also a rather peculiar boat which I happen to know pretty well, because she was owned by a friend of mine till recently, and he only sold her because sadly he's not able to use her anymore.
Yep, 100% Baglietto construction, from the keel up - hard to believe, innit?
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MapisM
Well-Known Member
Of course it's meant for lakes - or dead calm seas along the FL keys.
Let's face it, a boat that can reach speeds well into 3 digits in rough conditions simply doesn't exist.
If you forgive me for the rather abused automotive comparison, there are cars - even fast cars - which are excellent for going from A to B.
And then there are cars which are a total waste of money unless driven on closed tracks.
In which of these categories would you place a 31 feet catamaran capable of 130+ mph with "base" engines and 170+ mph with higher power?!?
Uberfast boats are meant for the sheer driving pleasure, not for cruising - in 99% of the case, just to leave from A and return to A after less than one hour, having made as many miles as from Cannes to Calvi in between.
Your challenge simply doesn't make sense to those who like driving Fast boats (cue capital F), because they couldn't care less about reaching B.
Just re-check the above video at 0:45, and look at the speed at which the helmsman is steering to stbd and then to port, apparently with zero effort: that is close to 70mph.
And trust me, steering at that speed on the water is quite an experience, even in flat calm conditions.
Or better said, OBVIOUSLY in flat calm conditions. You couldn't even go straight at 70mph in rough seas, let alone 100+!
Mind, I have nothing against boats capable of cruising at 40kts or whatever, throwing aside tons of water when hitting each and every wave, with the crew onboard constantly grabbing some rails. Plenty of people bought Magnums, Itamas, Baias and the likes, so obviously there's a demand for them - and they are indeed well built boats.
But imho, that has nothing to see with going real Fast on the water - it's just a way to reach B from A earlier than someone else with slower boats.
Not something I'm so interested in - but that's me, of course...
petem
Well-Known Member
Whilst we're on the subject of Italian boats, can someone tell me what this boat is?
http://imbd.wikia.com/wiki/For_Your_Eyes_Only?file=Itmpanther2.jpg
http://imbd.wikia.com/wiki/For_Your_Eyes_Only?file=Itmpanther2.jpg
julians
Well-Known Member
The article you linked to has the answer:-
The yacht was built by Cantiere Santa Margherita in Italy.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Thx P for filling the gaps re Baglietto.
Yes it was a V2000 iirc . Spot on .:encouragement:
Those hand rails fwd are for a guy that comes out with a fisherman’s landing net on a long pole .
They blurt over loud hailer which doc,s you have to drop in the net .
Then back off and pour over them ,lots of keyboard tapping and phone calls .
The 2nd pic , Meattini i spotted one in marina degli Aregai ( Ligurian coast ) last year . Resto project I am afraid .
https://imgur.com/a/eXN5f
Yes it was a V2000 iirc . Spot on .:encouragement:
Those hand rails fwd are for a guy that comes out with a fisherman’s landing net on a long pole .
They blurt over loud hailer which doc,s you have to drop in the net .
Then back off and pour over them ,lots of keyboard tapping and phone calls .
The 2nd pic , Meattini i spotted one in marina degli Aregai ( Ligurian coast ) last year . Resto project I am afraid .
https://imgur.com/a/eXN5f
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MapisM
Well-Known Member
Yup, "Panther" is actually a name used also by some other builders, back in the days.
But that one is a Santa Margherita (or just "Santa", for the aficionados) as julians spotted, a yard which also built Alalungas of Spertini's fame.
All wood construction btw, as the previous Baglietto.
Not the kind of boats that any sensible person would want to own and maintain, but I've yet to meet anyone (and I mean it!) that having been in command of these boats, after moving to much more modern and usually larger plastic ones afterwards, doesn't consider them still unrivalled in terms of seakeeping and comfort.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Hard to tell from your pic, but the boat indeed does seem a former GdF Meattini.
As I said, Baglietto built also a pleasure version straight from the yard, with a larger flybridge, among many other differences.
But there are also some dismissed GdF boats converted to pleasure usage, and that in your pic is possibly one of them.
It does take passion, time and money to properly restore these vessels, which certainly didn't have an easy life btw, compared to their almost sistership pleasure versions.
MeaCulpa
Member
Cheers! That was some solid info RE the Baia. Having just finished a re-watch of the Sopranos the mind does wander when Napoli, unions and trouble appear in the same context.
lapo’s Baglietto was/is a beauty but it does seem quite slow but that might be a good thing in Lapo’s case.
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
I am a bit confused in this one. For me it is not an Alalunga, and or Santa yachts was such a small builder in the period and they where a part of Spertini Alalunga.
Without research I would say late seventies early eighties Versilcraft and or Tecnomarine, but yes it does say Cantieri Santa Margherita in the description.
Old Alalunga's use to be CN Spertini, and that does not have the flare and curves the old Alalungas of the time had.
Santa Yachts was born, when Spertini Alalunga went bust in the mid eighties.