Sunsail, much maligned

[jac]

If the Stb boat ducks the port boat there is the possibility of a head on crash. If the port is not giving way the stb boat needs to tack so that they are both parallel and no collision can happen, maybe not real world behaviour but that's the rules.

I've now got my coat.
Night night

Depends when you tack. If you are close and perhaps slightly ahead (I.e. They will T bone the middle or aft part then tacking might mean they pile into your stern. This is a boat that obviously hasn't seen you or can't avoid you.

That said, tacking to be parallel will reduce the severity of any collision as your closing speed will be less.

It really depends when you decide it's too close. Taking action at 2 boat lengths doesn't leave much margin for error but for a port tacker used to racing, you getting nervy at 2 boat lengths is just unjustified.

 

[RichardS]

If the Stb boat ducks the port boat there is the possibility of a head on crash. If the port is not giving way the stb boat needs to tack so that they are both parallel and no collision can happen, maybe not real world behaviour but that's the rules.

I've now got my coat.
Night night

Nope again I'm afraid. The only rule which would apply in this situation when the boat on starboard has to take emergency avoiding action is that the boat should ideally not turn to port. We have no evidence that Dom did turn to port. Indeed, from his brief description, I suspect that he turned to starboard to pass behind the "give way" boat.

Richard

 

[Vanilla]

They may have been UKSA boats rather than sunsail. The former charter a few Sunsail boats during the winter.

 

[dom]

If the Stb boat ducks the port boat there is the possibility of a head on crash. If the port is not giving way the stb boat needs to tack so that they are both parallel and no collision can happen, maybe not real world behaviour but that's the rules.

No it's not! Also I can't see what this has to do with subtleties surrounding the racing/cruising (IRPCS) interface. However, in this instance neither vessels were racing, although if we were and I (Stbd) hit the rear quarter of Girls for Sale (Port …jeez what a name!) then we would have probably both been disqualified – she under rule 10 &and me under 14 (a, b).

Back to the IRPCS. As jac and Richard allude there is a world of difference between port and stbd crossing situations where (1) S is slightly ahead of P (i.e. P will hit S amidships) and (1) P slightly ahead of S (i.e. S will hit P amidships):

1. S is slightly ahead of P: P obviously has to give way (rule 12a) and S is bound to keep her course and speed (rule 17). P is also obliged to take avoiding action in in ample time so as to pass at a safe distance (rule 8a and d). Meanwhile S is required to continually monitor whether a risk of collision exists (rule 7). At some point S realises “Uh Oh, this is not good!” and at that point he must comply with his overarching duty to “make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger” (rule 2). If S bears away he’ll have to do so massively, his sails will stall, P will panic and Bang! In the event of a claim I could easily see this going 50:50, but happy to be corrected here. So S tacks under P's lee-bow, P apologises and karma is restored.

2. P slightly ahead of S: fast fwd to the “Uh Oh, this is not good!” point, at which time P is fast approaching dead ahead of S and could not hit him if she tried. If S tries to tack at this late stage he creates an almost certain collision as P might bear away at the last minute. So instead S dips P’s stern as required by Rule 2 and once again karma is restored. This is exactly what happened here. Moreover, S’s late actions are also consistent with RRS rule 14(a) which states that a right-of-way boat need not act to avoid contact until it is clear that the other boat is not keeping clear.
​

I would have thought that each w/e all of this happens 1000s of times up and down the Solent ?

 

[Giblets]

Dom, I'm surprised you didn't get the fog horn out and give 'em 5 blasts! That might have concentrated their minds a little.

 

[Angele]

Dom

There is no point in trying to defend your actions in a colregs thread (or even a non-colregs thread that turns into one) as I learnt to my cost: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?373972-I-m-the-spinnaker-boat-new-rule-for-COLREGS

Anyhow, back to the point of the thread...

As others have said, nothing wrong with Sunsail or their boats. And often their corporate customers know what they are doing. But sometimes, just sometimes you get a bunch of their customers who have chartered out a large proportion of the fleet and they haven't a clue what to do (either out on the water or in the marina) and those are the ones to avoid. The difficult bit is working out which is which.

The main problem is the scale of it. A big fleet can mean a lot of idiots.

 

[dom]

Dom, I'm surprised you didn't get the fog horn out and give 'em 5 blasts! That might have concentrated their minds a little.

Dom
There is no point in trying to defend your actions in a colregs thread (or even a non-colregs thread that turns into one) as I learnt to my cost: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?373972-I-m-the-spinnaker-boat-new-rule-for-COLREGS

@ Giblets: good idea, except of my two 'fog horns'. The first is an aerosol effort which does nothing at first and then let's out an alarming squawk. The other a red trumpet-like thing which makes a sound similar to a kids Christmas blowout. Doubt the girls wld have been impressed :ambivalence:

@ Angele: yep I see what you mean, although I was impressed with your departing "Read the Collregs" comment as I wld prob have reached deeper into street vernacular. Incidentally, this is why it is such a good idea to have an Italian on board -- I used to crew for one once and I'm sure people fouled us at marks just to see what he came out with

 

[lpdsn]

As jac and Richard allude there is a world of difference between port and stbd crossing situations

We need a diagram.

 

[Resolution]

Dom
What were you doing on board your boat that so transfixed the Girls for Sail crew, so that they forgot to tack off to clear you????

 

[dom]

Dom
What were you doing on board your boat that so transfixed the Girls for Sail crew, so that they forgot to tack off to clear you????

We were just sailing along as normal: crew on the rail in their new forum Speedos

 

[jac]

We were just sailing along as normal: crew on the rail in their new forum Speedos

Why did I just bring up a small amount of vomit?

 

[lw395]

Nope again I'm afraid. The only rule which would apply in this situation when the boat on starboard has to take emergency avoiding action is that the boat should ideally not turn to port. We have no evidence that Dom did turn to port. Indeed, from his brief description, I suspect that he turned to starboard to pass behind the "give way" boat.

Richard

A starboard tack boat will turn to port to duck a port tacker?
When racing, we quite often invite port tackers too carry on across us, as we don't want them to tack and sail over the top of us.
This is particularl the case when they are nearly crossing us anyway, or crossing us but with no margin.
We want them out of the way, so we can both carry on with our races, particularly different races.

 

[lw395]

If the Stb boat ducks the port boat there is the possibility of a head on crash. If the port is not giving way the stb boat needs to tack so that they are both parallel and no collision can happen, maybe not real world behaviour but that's the rules.

I've now got my coat.
Night night

Two boats sailing close and parallel is an ongoing collision risk, unless and until the faster one is clear upwind/ahead.

 

[RichardS]

A starboard tack boat will turn to port to duck a port tacker?
When racing, we quite often invite port tackers too carry on across us, as we don't want them to tack and sail over the top of us.
This is particularl the case when they are nearly crossing us anyway, or crossing us but with no margin.
We want them out of the way, so we can both carry on with our races, particularly different races.

Don't ask me ...... ask Doris. It's her scenario rather than mine.

Richard