Sunsail Charter UK

[maxi77]

Feel free to point out where I've said I would be expected to be taken out regardless of the weather?

I'm pretty sure I expect a service I've paid for to be provided, or alternative arrangements made reschedule/refund.

I think I've made a fairly clear distinction between a service and a physical object here, which you seem to be deliberately ignoring.

No I am really trying to see how you expect the company to control the weather to give you what you demand. How if they fail to provide this control over the weather do you expect then to give you some replacement service if they are fully booked when you are available. Or do you suggest they should have uncommitted assets available to keep you happy, If this is the case are you willing to pay the extra costs these assets will consume.

My real problem is in the end is how do you expect them to recover the costs of your 100% service guarantee. And to be honest I do not really see why a skippered charter should be different to bareboat or purchase, they are all just ways of getting afloat and all subject to the weather.

 

[vjmehra]

In effect, I'm saying the risk is their responsibility as the provider of a service.

Sorry to keep using the cricket example, but the ECB has insurance so that if test matches get rained off they don't lose out on ticket sales.

It may be the case that Sunsail feel not having suitable insurance keeps their costs down, however other charter companies are perfectly willing to offer exactly what I'm after for the same price.

It therefore suprised me that a large company like Sunsail (who I would have presumed are better positioned than most, given their relative size and the size of their parent company).

That said, its an opinion, I have chosen not to do business with Sunsail, as I did not find their terms favourable.

You are perfectly within your rights to risk your money and accept their terms, you obviously have a higher risk tolerance than me and you have every right to do so.

With regards to the weather, as I've previously mentioned I'm not asking anyone to control the weather (that said, if I had friends that could do that I would ;-), or to take me out regardless of the weather.

As for owning a boat vs Skippered charter, they are both forms of getting out on the water, but that doesn't make them the same thing. I guess in the same way buying a car is not the same as taking a taxi.

 

[Tranona]

No I am really trying to see how you expect the company to control the weather to give you what you demand. How if they fail to provide this control over the weather do you expect then to give you some replacement service if they are fully booked when you are available. Or do you suggest they should have uncommitted assets available to keep you happy, If this is the case are you willing to pay the extra costs these assets will consume.

My real problem is in the end is how do you expect them to recover the costs of your 100% service guarantee. And to be honest I do not really see why a skippered charter should be different to bareboat or purchase, they are all just ways of getting afloat and all subject to the weather.

But there is always a risk. The supplier can have his own insurance and pass the cost onto the client by way of higher charges, or can be self insuring and carry the cost - which may also lead to higher charges. Or he can do as most charter companies do which is to pass that risk to the client, possibly resulting in the client getting a lower price. The client can then choose to insure against the risk.

The big flaw that I see in the Sunsail deal is that they do not seem to offer the client the choice. In most bareboat charter operations the basic insurance has a substantial excess against damage which can be removed by paying either a refundable bond upfront to cover the uninsured part or a separate insurance to cover the same amount.

If the risks of non performance due to weather are high I am surprised that the operator does not offer optional insurance, but guess that their experience is that potential claims are very low so not a big issue for most clients.

Seems the OP does consider it a risk he does not want to take and as he is not offered the option of an insurance he quite rightly tries to find (and has found) somebody else who will meet his requirements.

Sunsail are perfectly entitled to set the T&Cs without being subject to castigation for doing so. Nothing they are doing is illegal and the client has the option to accept or reject.

 

[vjmehra]

Seems a fair analysis of the situation!

 

[Sailfree]

If anyone want to go sailing with a money back in the event of bad weather! I am not sure sailing in the UK is for them.

 

[Tranona]

If anyone want to go sailing with a money back in the event of bad weather! i am not sure sailing in the UK is for them.

But the OP has found a company that will provide some recompense in the event that conditions prevent him doing what he wants.

The issue is about whether he takes on the risk or pays a premium for others to assume the risk on his behalf and all he was looking for was somebody to share the risk, which he did.

 

[Mark-1]

Sorry for the delay...I decided to go with Stormforce in the end, they were very helpful and accomodating!

I bought a jacket from Stormforce a whileback and they seemed an excellent firm.

Can you post a link to their terms for replacing Charter days lost due to weather, I'd be interested in seeing them.

 

[jimi]

Will you also get your money back if there's no wind and you've got to motor all the time?

 

[vjmehra]

Nope, not in that scenario, I see what you're getting at....but I guess its a slightly different scenario, motoring would obviously be frustrating, but they would still be performing a service, hence that risk I am prepared to take.

 

[vjmehra]

Mark-1, I can't actually find that wording on the website, I spoke to the company personally (as they had seen this thread) and we were able to agree terms.

 

[NormanS]

Mark-1, I can't actually find that wording on the website, I spoke to the company personally (as they had seen this thread) and we were able to agree terms.

So you have a verbal agreement

 

[Mark-1]

Mark-1, I can't actually find that wording on the website, I spoke to the company personally (as they had seen this thread) and we were able to agree terms.

Ok, can you outline the terms that were related to you verbally?

 

[vjmehra]

If we can't go sailing, then the company bears responsibility for paying their skippers and we re-schedule for an alternative weekend (at no additional cost).

In essence thats it (sorry I should have pointed out, they did put this in writing for me)!

 

[Mark-1]

If we can't go sailing, then the company bears responsibility for paying their skippers and we re-schedule for an alternative weekend (at no additional cost).

In essence thats it!

That seems very vague. I'm sure if both sides are prepared to be reasonable and compromise there will be no problem at all, but I can see infinate scope for disatisfaction in some cases.

 

[vjmehra]

I see your point, I guess in that respect I am putting my trust in the training company, but they have a good reputation and had I booked with Sunsail, I would have zero chance of re-scheduling!

 

[Mark-1]

I see your point, I guess in that respect I am putting my trust in the training company, but they have a good reputation and had I booked with Sunsail, I would have zero chance of re-scheduling!

The charter firm wouldn't need to be disreputable for a poorly defined agreement to backfire. Imagine someone hires a boat for May Bank Holiday for a trip to Alderney and they can't go because of a forecast 7 on the nose which turns out to be a 6 which blows for two of the three days. So they require the replacement boat for the next Bank Holiday in August but there's no availability.

I think that might cause a dispute if the customer insisted that he couldn't sail and was owed a free boat for the August Bank Holiday.

If you think that scenario is too extreme I'm sure u can think of a better one to demonstrate the same point.

 

[vjmehra]

Yep, I see your point, however its still better to be able to have some recourse than none at all, as with Sunsail

I'm getting married in the August bank holiday, so as it turns out (by chance) that scenario couldn't actually arise, realistically we'd have to do an alternative weekend.

 

[Mark-1]

Yep, I see your point

On re-reading I've perhaps laboured it a bit too much!

however its still better to be able to have some recourse than none at all, as with Sunsail
.

Yes, and I think a vague agreement is definately to the customer's advantage because if there's a disagreement the customer can voice it in public and the firm will probably give in to a dubious claim just to avoid the negative publicity.

As I said Stormforce seemed an excellent firm to me and I'm sure your party are reasonable so in this specific case I'm sure there will be no problem whatsoever.

 

[vjmehra]

I'm hoping that is definitely the case

I'll give a full write up (and pictures) of the trip once done, looking forward to it

 

[vjmehra]

So as promised, here is a brief write up of the trip!

We headed down to Shamrock Quay Friday afternoon and after a brief chat with the skippers and the 12 of us we decided against a channel crossing. Whilst the weather was good enough, we collectively felt the experience (or lack of) of the crew probably didn't make it the best option for a fairly relaxed sailing weekend. So instead we headed out to Cowes on the Friday night, arriving just before closing time and even managed to grab a really good takeaway curry, although the restaurant name (sadly) escapes me!

Here is a brief clip of us heading out: http://youtu.be/UMMuKUx7-eo

On the Saturday we fuelled up, then headed out towards Poole, the weather was a lot nicer than the previous day, with sun all round and enough wind to mean we didn't need our engines all day (although I must have used a fair amount with a number of failed attempts to raft up to the other boat in Poole Harbour)!

http://youtu.be/ZXdYxVsk98A

After an 'interesting' Saturday night out in Poole, we set off again, heading out to Swanage, where we anchored up for lunch...and in the case of one brave soul even a swim (which he regretted as soon as he hit the water)!

After lunch we set off for the Isle of Wight again, with Yarmouth the chosen destination and after a few tidal calcs and a bit of luck managed to get an outer buoy, leaving us enough depth! I'd never been there before, but it seems like a nice place, although I wish they wouldn't stop serving food so early (next time we'll make sure we only go there to drink ;-)!

Monday we set off for Shamrock Quay, but with a fairly long detour involving various bits of the Solent, giving everyone a chance to practice their tacking/gybing etc!

We finished off around 4ish and said our goodbyes, all in all a great weekend was had by all so I'd like to thank our skippers Tim & Luke and the Stormforce crew!