Sunken yacht in Solent

[ylop]

When I put my anchor down, I'm moored to the seabed. For some strange reason, there is no suggestion that moored boats are required to show a ball, even although they are just as vulnerable to the supposed danger of collision. Logic?

You asked the same question several pages ago and people suggested answers - see posts 144-148 for starters.

I'm not 100% convinced that by the letter of the law a moored boat should not display an anchor ball, although clearly the convention is not to. I think there may be an additional factor at least for yachts - when I'm moored (at least at my "home" mooring and have gone away) the boat is quite obviously shut up - it could of course be motoring. When I'm at anchor there are often more signs of life - people, open stack packs, tenders etc which would not be inconsistent with motoring through/out of an anchorage.

 

[ylop]

Prey what are "maritime police" ? Up here if you see a Police vessel you must be within sight of a nuclear submarine or base - and they tend to be quite persuasive.
Elsewhere, as far as I am aware, the don't exist.

When I was in Mallaig once the RNLI lifeboat had to take the local PCs to deal with a domestic incident, at a community unable to be reached by road!

Police Scotland (not the MOD Plod) do have a marine division. Mostly used for dive stuff, but they will do other marine tasks too. But I am quite confident that they have never disturbed someone's beauty sleep to tell them to put an anchor ball up. Mostly because they don't do that sort of stuff, but also because most people are asleep when it is dark and the correct day shape is irrelevant!

 

[Mark-1]

When I was in Mallaig once the RNLI lifeboat had to take the local PCs to deal with a domestic incident, at a community unable to be reached by road!

Gotta love Knoydart. However, I've watched "The Wicker Man" and "When Eight Bells Toll" so I can confirm that, even in the most remote areas of the UK, the Police have a dedicated Helicopter to deal with minor IRPCS transgressions.

I failed to give a Fishing boat room in once in the Minch and Edward Woodwood fired three Exocets at me. Luckily only two hit so I was able to swim home from my burning boat.

In contrast I saw a boat keep clear of the vessel it was overtaking and they were rewarded with a weekend with Britk Ekland.

Carrot and stick.

 

[capnsensible]

My general question.

Where in the IRPCS does it state that a vessel that is not underway, for example at anchor.....must keep a good lookout at all times?

 

[capnsensible]

Prey what are "maritime police" ? Up here if you see a Police vessel you must be within sight of a nuclear submarine or base - and they tend to be quite persuasive.
Elsewhere, as far as I am aware, the don't exist.

When I was in Mallaig once the RNLI lifeboat had to take the local PCs to deal with a domestic incident, at a community unable to be reached by road!

Not really needed in the Northern Periphery where nothing much happens.

Busy military harbours obviously have a police maritime patrol. Commercial ports that I've been in often have some kind of Harbour Authority vessels on'policing' duties.

Maritime nations, I believe, have maritime patrols of one sort or another. I can confirm that Spain and Morocco have maritime police and mist places I've sailed to have some kind of security service at sea.

 

[NormanS]

You asked the same question several pages ago and people suggested answers - see posts 144-148 for starters.

I'm not 100% convinced that by the letter of the law a moored boat should not display an anchor ball, although clearly the convention is not to. I think there may be an additional factor at least for yachts - when I'm moored (at least at my "home" mooring and have gone away) the boat is quite obviously shut up - it could of course be motoring. When I'm at anchor there are often more signs of life - people, open stack packs, tenders etc which would not be inconsistent with motoring through/out of an anchorage.

Yes, I asked the same question, and no one can answer it. Still hopeful that someone can show reason why a boat moored to, for example, a concrete block, is safe from the danger of collision, and needs no ball or light, while one with an anchor on the seabed, needs both. I am familiar with lots of places where moored and anchored boats lie in close proximity. Earnest searching after truth.

 

[capnsensible]

Keep it simple.

An anchor ball day shape indicates a vessel laying to its own anchor.

It is not on a mooring.

Why do people want to make such simple and straightforward rules so difficult?

 

[westhinder]

Maritime nations, I believe, have maritime patrols of one sort or another. I can confirm that Spain and Morocco have maritime police and mist places I've sailed to have some kind of security service at sea.

Both the Netherlands and Belgium have dedicated maritime police units.
Belgium also has so called ‘shipping inspectors’ who do check yachts for their mandatory equipment and who can also levy fines on yachts sailing through prohibited areas, they use AIS for that

 

[Little Tern]

My general question.

Where in the IRPCS does it state that a vessel that is not underway, for example at anchor.....must keep a good lookout at all times?

Rule 5

 

[capnsensible]

Rule 5

Which part of this rule states anchored vessels are required to keep a lookout?

 

[Little Tern]

The bit where it says: "Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision."

 

[capnsensible]

The bit where it says: "Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision."

So it doesn't mention anchored, moored, docked or anything else where a vessel is not underway then.

 

[Little Tern]

No it doesn't. Why would it? It is quite clear that this applies to every vessel, at all times.

Which of course would include vessels at times when they are at anchor

 

[capnsensible]

No it doesn't. Why would it? It is quite clear that this applies to every vessel, at all times.

Which of course would include vessels at times when they are at anchor

That's the problem. It most certainly doesn't make any reference to vessels not under way. Otherwise you are gonna have to keep watches on your yacht in a marina. Or when lifted onto a hardstanding. etc, etc.

So, show me please, where in the rules that an anchor watch is mandatory.

 

[KevinV]

Yes, I asked the same question, and no one can answer it. Still hopeful that someone can show reason why a boat moored to, for example, a concrete block, is safe from the danger of collision, and needs no ball or light, while one with an anchor on the seabed, needs both. I am familiar with lots of places where moored and anchored boats lie in close proximity. Earnest searching after truth.

Like most here it doesn't make sense to me that a moored boat differs in any meaningful way from an anchored one. The only logic I can see is either that moorings are shown on charts, and that a mooring has a ball on it already - even though that might not be visible from all sides.

 

[NormanS]

Keep it simple.

An anchor ball day shape indicates a vessel laying to its own anchor.

It is not on a mooring.

Why do people want to make such simple and straightforward rules so difficult?

I have frequently left my boat moored with two anchors, for periods of four weeks, in a system known as a Bahamian Moor. So, in your opinion, should it have an anchor ball, and why?

 

[Mark-1]

U

It is quite clear that this applies to every vessel, at all times.

Yup. There are many rules where you have to seek out case law to find out their meaning but this isn't one of them, it's unambiguous clear English.

If , instead of "at all times" they meant (say) "when underway" they'd have written that.

I'm sure questions were asked about Stena Immaculate,s anchor watch.

 

[ylop]

So it doesn't mention anchored, moored, docked or anything else where a vessel is not underway then.

I think there is an interesting point here (for pedants at least) that it doesn’t say “every vessel at all times when underway”. There is a practical reality than small boats are left on moorings and at anchor with nobody on board, and few people maintain an overnight anchor watch on leisure craft (except is worried about dragging). The report on the collision at anchor off the E of England will be interesting MAIB report because I expect it will imply that the anchored ship should have had a lookout. I’m not sure if Little Tern is really arguing that an anchored or moored yacht should never be left unattended… perhaps he owns a marina!!

 

[Little Tern]

That's the problem. It most certainly doesn't make any reference to vessels not under way. Otherwise you are gonna have to keep watches on your yacht in a marina. Or when lifted onto a hardstanding. etc, etc.

So, show me please, where in the rules that an anchor watch is mandatory.

Wow. I had formed the impression that you rated yourself as some sort of guru on colregs. But you think they apply to a boat on hardstanding? What about the dinghy in my back garden? Do you think that should be displaying lights and shapes?

I have shown you where in the rules that an anchor watch is mandatory. It is rule 5. That rule applies to all vessels at all times.

 

[Little Tern]

I’m not sure if Little Tern is really arguing that an anchored or moored yacht should never be left unattended…

No. I am however suggesting that the colregs appear to mandate that. But as chiara's slave and capnsensible have pointed out, this is a rule more honoured in the breach.

The relevance is the number of people upthread who were blowing gaskets at the thought that a small vessel, tucked away in a remote creek, might possibly not be displaying an anchor ball. Not because it affected the risk of collision, but because they judged it against colregs. The point is, that people don't always slavishly obey the colregs. Sometimes they are onerous, sometimes they appear irrelevant to our needs, But we all pick and choose.