Suitable boat for cruising to and around the Med

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rays

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I'm looking for some advice. My wife and I are looking to buy a suitable boat to sail to the Med. We would plan to overwinter it there, eventually finishing up in Greece /Turkey. We are thinking of a second hand Legend 36' or similar with decent aft cabin. Any views or altenative suggestions would be welcomed.
Is 36' big enough to liveaboard and man enough for the journey there? Budget 45-60k all in.
 
Welcome to the Forum.

36ft is big enough. We lived aboard and cruised 12,000 miles including an Atlantic crossing on a 36ft Westerly Corsair. The story is here

Everyone will have a different opinion on which boat. I favour older heavier displacement like Moody or if more modern, better build quality like Dufour. Now I'm biased because I own a Moody 38, and when not cruising full time I CHOOSE to sell new Dufour's. But I have owned a Legend, a Beneteau and a Westerly. So my choice of Moody and Dufour are based on personal experience, but you will get many different views on here. (That's what makes it such a good forum) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
45-60k "all in" - does this mean the boat, the boat and kit or what?

Either way you are looking at a secondhand boat of course.

It is cheaper to buy in the med (or nearly anywhere) than in the uk. Also, if you buy in med (or nearby) then you likely get a med-spec boat with fans and iceboxes instead of heaters.
 
Everything is relative re size and apparent seaworthiness.

I met a couple here in Barbados who had just crossed the Atlantic on a Cal 25. They were living on board, and seemed to be very happy.
Bumped into them again 6 years later. They had been around the world on this little Cal 25, had 2 kids on the way, and were still blissfully happy. But dreaming of a larger boat......
So they moved up to an enormous (to them) 33' steel french boat, and spent the next few years living on board this huge vessel (wtih 3 kids now) in high latitudes (Greenland, Iceland, Norway), even in winter time.

I think they would be in agreement that a Legend 36 or similar would be plenty big enough for the two of you to live on board. However many other folk on this forum are of the opinion that anything under 40' would be too small / cramped...... everything is relative!
 
I have been reading threads like this for some time and have come up with one bit of advice for myself. My small boat is up for sale and the next one is the first one I will live on. I don't expect this to be the last one! There are so many different (and relevent) veiws that I feel the only way is to try and change if needed. Everyone is different, thank God!
Allan
 
A Legend 42 was moored next to us in Lagos having done the same UK-Portugal trip a little after us.

They had 35 knots across the Bay and average 20 knots down the Portuguese Coast, but mostly downwind, (Northerlies).

The owner, who was new to sailing, (had a paid skipper on board who had worked on Legends for years), said it was hairy, but the boat stood up to it well.

i looked at lots of boats before buying Rogue... and decided that less than 40ft was too small for me to live on, and more than 45ft was to big to handle... but that's just me.
 
There's a good discussion of this in Rod Heikell's RYA Book of Mediterranean Cruising. My favourite bit is:
Q. What sort of boat is best?
A. The one you have, or the one that fits your budget and you can afford to maintain.

We find our 33 footer quite spacious, maybe because in our earlier years of sailing we spent many happy weeks in a Winkle Brig, 16ft 7in over the deck, sitting headroom if you're lucky, with two adults and two very small children.
 
I fully agree with Jonic in endorsing Moodys- but then I'm biased too.
36ft in the Med is definitely enough, and I too would recommend you buy a boat that's already out there as it's more likely to be kitted out with the kind of things you need for warmer climes, such as lots of shade and ventilation, and holding tanks etc...
 
Given the med weather, you need to think about lots of hatches for ventilation and a decently sized cockpit - because you'll be spending a lot of time upstairs, rather than down. I'm not sure many Brit boats meet these criteria. I'd also look at boats with the larger engine option, just to keep the noise down. For value and Medish kit, I agree that it may be better to buy there, rather than here. It also means maybe you'd worry less about the possible conflict between the best boat to get you there and the right boat when you're there. Legend's are certainly not without their critics but would probably suit a Med lifestyle very well.

In terms of size and within your budget range, something 'modern' 36-40 would probably be OK, albeit a bit tight budget-wise because ex-charter/holiday boats often tend to be thinly spec'd. Also think about a large forecabin as an alternative to a large aft. Unless you'll be anchoring loads, it'll be stern to the quay and thus maybe it'll be quieter in the forecabin - also better for crew to nap when under motor.

I've not 'livedaboard' though so you may take what I say with a healthy dose of salt and scepticism.
 
I have lived aboard our 39ft steel motorsailor since September 2005. We are setting off for the med in May 2007. In an ideal world, I would buy a boat, live on board it and then sell it for a boat you really want /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif . Truthfully, the things you believe are important when sailing may not be so important for a liveaboard.
As the world isn't ideal, I would recommend you buy in the med, for the cost savings and also the boats are more likely to be set up for hot weather.
Regarding size, this is just choice - I would keep under 12m (for costs) and ease of finding a winter berth.
I personally would go for an older heavier displacement boat, eg. Moody, Westerly or Nicholson.
I like the internal space a legend offers, but I am unsure how it would hold up when subject to living aboard - rather than a few weekend sailing - is the internal build quality good enough?
 
Lots of good advice above. We are on a Sadler 34, not the world's most capacious 34 footer, but we have plenty of space for two. In many marinas in the Western Med the charge band appropriate to us is 10 - 11.99 metres, so a boat almost 1.5 metres longer than us would pay the same money. As we move east we find that this is not always the case and, for example, in Italy the band is often 10 - 10.99. It would definitely be worthwhile in France and Spain.

Buying a second-hand boat in the Med has tremendous advantages. They tend to be cheaper, especially in Greece, and as others point out, they will come with the hot weather gear that you will have to buy. A bimini will cost you 2000 Euros, your refrigerator may well flatten your batteries daily unless uprated, solar panels are invaluable but expensive.

For info, there is what appears to be a very nice Moody 376 for sale in YM and details on the website at http://marinedirectory.ybw.com/boat/new/boat_details1.jsp?id=39431&curr_id=1 . Look at the inventory offered, for the money they are asking. Seems a bargain to me!
 
Just remember the med is hot and oft windless in summer months - so IMHO ensure its open enough to allow lots of above deck shaded living, light enough to motor sail at a resonable clip without spending a fortune of fuel, and popular enough to resell without too many problems at some later date.
And I'd agree you'll most likely find what you want out there.
Good luck
JOHN
 
another thing

all good stufff above. however, I would say that altho you should get a better deal out there, you may feel more comforatble about getting a boat in uk and learning the ropes, snagging ec and these things can sometimes (tho not always) be easier in uk without language barrier.

The good aspect of the Legend boats i saw was that medwise they have no teak decks, or not as standard tt seems. Teak decks look nice and swish at boat shows but are a liability in hot med sun - teak is dark and with high heat capacity so will tend to help the cabins/saloon heat up. Also can be hot on tootsies and needs a bucket of water throwig about every now and again. White or light-coloured deck has no such tendency and is far moe reflective -cooler underfoot and in cabins. The sae applies to blue hulls but to a lesserdegree imho.

Legends are not especially designed with ocean crossing abilities, so you should not be planning yeehah offshore sailing on the edge adventures etc. However, if you take it moderaely gently the boat should doubtless be fine as zillions f them are.

Also the trip to the med is especially worth dawdling over, brittany, vendee and spanish rias all lovely sunshine, spanish rias, portugal. Spansih med much less attractive imho
 
Although some people moor stern to, I always moored bow-to. It gives more privacy in the cockpit and with a short-handed crew I find mooring easier. Consider that often a lot of goodies are hung on the back of the ship: outboard for the dinghy, windvane-steering, a wind-generator etc., which makes stern-to mooring almost impossible.
Bow-to steering normally requires a gangway to easily board the ship.
 
Yes but many boats (including the Legend I believe) have an open transom which makes stern to a more natural choice, notwithstanding windvane. Agree with you though about the cockpit privacy thing.
 
Agree with Kalessin. I know a couple with a 40 footer that is such a handful, they sail everywhere with two reefs in. Find something you can handle as a couple, or even as a single if you have your partner laid low with seasickness. Bigger boats cost more in marinas and cost more to maintain.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Although some people moor stern to, I always moored bow-to. It gives more privacy in the cockpit and with a short-handed crew I find mooring easier.

[/ QUOTE ]
All the more reasons to choose a centre-cockpit like a Moody 346 or a 376: you can go stern-to but still retain some privacy, and you gat a palatial owner's aft cabin!
 
Just Harbour Talk

Looking at this and similar threads on making the "big move" reminds me of what the US navigator, Webb Chiles who knows a thing or two, wrote about choosing a sailing yacht for liveaboard cruising.

----There are only three things you really have to take into consideration.
1. It should sail well
2. It should hold together
3. It should "look good" when you are rowing away from it at an anchorage.
.....the rest is just harbour talk because the sea does not care.
 
cambridgedon

My wife and I are living on a legend 36. It is plenty big enough, definintely the most comfortable 36 we have ever seen, and very simple to handle by one person. She sails "OK" but probably won't be a star in a f9 or more. If you wish to PM me please feel free.

Pops
 
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