Suing a Surveyor ?

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I had my boat surveyed by a prospective purchasor and the surveyor has said there is a major fault with the boat.
I since had it checked out by an engineer friend who say's the surveyor is talking poppycock! I've now lost the sale and everyone who looks at the boat asks what was the survey like? I've talked it through with him, but he won't change his mind.
Where do I stand, should I get a survey done by another surveyor, can I sue the first one or is it only his opinion?
 
Suing him? No chance, in the absence of any ulterior motives.

He is a surveyor providing one opinion. Your friend has another, less qualified, opinion.

End of.

Out of interest, what major fault can cause such a differnece of opinion?
 
From the YBDSA website. Out of interest is your surveyor registered with them?

"I am unhappy with the service provided by the surveyor who surveyed my boat. What should I do?

You should always go back to the surveyor in the first instance. He may be able to explain his reasons for doing or not doing whatever is concerning you. If you remain unhappy and cannot reach a satisfactory settlement with the surveyor you may contact the YDSA who will assist if possible. The Association cannot adjudicate on cases - this is a matter for the legal system - but we will look at issues relating to compliance with our Surveyors' Code of Practice. The legal processes are either through the Courts, mediation or, which we often recommend, arbitration. The Court system (except in the Admiralty Courts, which do not deal with small claims) is not geared up to marine law, and the judge may need a considerable amount of technical detail to be made clear before he can make a decision. This can be time-consuming and expensive, and if you are using a solicitor, the costs will include his fees. Claims through the Small Claims Court can be put forward by the claimant in person, so you do not have to use a solicitor.

Mediation is a process whereby an independent person works with the parties to help them reach a solution themselves. A decision is not imposed by the mediator.

In technical matters, we recommend arbitration, as this can be undertaken by a technically qualified person. Arbitration can be by documents only, with the parties putting their cases in person to the arbitrator, and may or may not necessitate a visit to the vessel in question. The parties pay for the arbitration jointly. It is rare for the arbitrator to make an award of costs against one party. An arbitrator's decision is binding under the Arbitration Acts. Many standard contracts provide for arbitration, and a court will reject a case if there is such a clause, and no good reason can be given for not having used it.!
 
Thanks for the replies, the friend I got to look will be more qualified that the surveyor (he's a structual engineer for the army). And I better not say what the problem is for legal reasons /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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Thanks for the replies, the friend I got to look will be more qualified that the surveyor (he's a structual engineer for the army). And I better not say what the problem is for legal reasons /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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Is he a qualifed marine surveyor? No. That's what any court would pick up on. The other surveyor owes you no legal duty of care, either.
 
So in fact, someone who's submitted 3 surveys to the YBDSA and got membership could be less qualified than (say) a qualified structural engineer? I'm suprised that you think its so clear cut...

Rick
 
You didn't pay him, he wasn't acting for you = no legal liability. You could always contact his professional body and make a complaint but I doubt if any money would come from that.
I blasted a Sigma 36 for a yard where a boat had been diagnosed for osmosis on the basis of a single bubble on a cleaned patch. On starting the blast job it became obvious that there was no osmosis, what the surveyor had found was a single air bubble there wasn't another on the whole of the hull. On the basis of that the vendor lost £10K plus!
 
Surveyors are not infallible,all you can do is make everything as accessible as possible,especially wary of loadsa antifoul buildup,they're going to cover themselves..
I would think that a sound counterpoint opinion from the boatyard would help to encourage any prospective new buyer to commit to the next stage and get their own survey done,pref using one of the few highly recommended surveyors experienced by forumites here?
 
I know that it's not that easy to get into the YBDSA - one boat I bought had been surveyed by somebody who hadn't got got full membership and had a few more hoops to go through before getting there.

I would have thought it was pretty obvious why a yacht surveyor was more qualified than a structural engineer - they know what they are talking about, what to look for and what sort of stresses yachts have. You would also hope they might know some of the history and likely problems of that model, and possibly even the particular boat itself.

When I was working for Lloyds Register I dealt with some serious senior marine surveyors who surveyed tankers, large bulk carriers etc. I got a very full answer when I asked them a question about some suspected problems with the boat I was looking at - but they ended by saying that of course they were not yacht surveyors and I'd get a much better answer by going down to the yacht department.

In other words they were expert enough to know their limitations, whereas the structural engineer friend doesn't appear to be.
 
As Ken says - if he was working for the buyer the information belongs to the buyer. If you know what they said was wrong - I guess it was judged to be quite serious - get another Marine Surveyor to check that specific point. A mate is not always the best advisor . It won't help in the least with this failed sale but you will then know if it really need fixing. If it does need fixing the next surveyor will most likely find it as well.
 
I just picked the requirements from the YBDSA website. "Surveyors are required to submit copies of three survey reports for boats of different materials". That gets you affiliate membership (yes, more hoops for associate etc, but the point remains).

I would also not assume that becaue someone says they're a yacht surveyor, that they knew what they were talking about. There are no formal qualifications for small craft surveying - its down to experience - which they have to get somewhere....

Sure you can find good surveyors, but you'll also find bad ones and inexperienced ones (such as the one mentioned in this months MBM legal pages). If you're willing to trust anyone who says they're a surveyor, thats up to you.

Rick
 
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If you're willing to trust anyone who says they're a surveyor, thats up to you.

Rick

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Fair point - I was overstating things. When I have needed a surveyor I've shopped around and tried to get as many cross-checks as possible, whether from reading about the model, asking boatyards and finding out about previous work done and surveys.
 
Out of the 8 boats I have owned I only once had a survey and that surveyor failed to find a pretty elementary, quite serious fault. He also asked the vendor if he had any literature on the boat that he could use to 'pad' out the report. He was a well know established surveyor with a good reputation.

I have had surveys for insurance purposes and found them padded out - wordy and frequently missing faults I knew existed.

If you know anything about boats at all then frankly the survey is a waste of time and money - the cost will probably be more than any fault you may find - Do not forget generally they do not test or verify the engine under power - most of the electronics are not checked as the boat is out of the water - So what, in the expensive to repair/replace area are they telling you that you cannot see for yourself...?

Michael
 
RupertW .... agreed but for one point ...

As a Pro Surveyor ... and been one for quite a few years ......... I agree that your Marine guy who advised that a Yacht Surveyor is needed is correct. Each field has its speciality.

But I must comment that Joining the YBDSA is not the hurdle or as difficult as you imply .....

There is no real Professional Qualification for a Yacht Surveyor. The YBDSA has for years promulgated this perception of Professional Qualification ... no it is a number of surveys carried out and submitted to them for scrutiny. They thgen allow associate membership till such time as they decide ... Now I was very close to joining until I received certain papers describing how I would charge for my services ... introducing a "volume" factor into my fee structure. My fees are by linear footage ... no volume factors / correctors ... in fact I will negotiate with client.
I have stayed away from them - they being self-appointed, self regulating ........... They are an Association - not a Governing Body and as far as I am concerned have no authority whatsoever.
Many like me are tired of the YBDSA being put forward as THE Body .... there are many excellent Surveyors out there who do not want to join T. SB's little gang ...

In fact there are two Professional Bodies out there that far greater experience and clout .... one based on Marine Architects and the other on International Marine Surveyors from all over the world ... now I will leave the experts to find out who they are !!!!!! Tee Hee !!

I have posted similar to this many times before and I find it interesting that the YBDSA, YDSA, YBSA, YSA ... (name changes depending on weather I assume) ... haven't replied or refuted my words EVER ....

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If the surveyor was working for the prospective purchaser, you have no contractural relationship with the surveyor. You cannot therefore sue him (or her) in relation to the survey report.

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I was thinking in terms of tort rather than contract, i.e. would the other side's surveyor owe a duty of care reaching beyond his own client? I suspect not.
 
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So in fact, someone who's submitted 3 surveys to the YBDSA and got membership could be less qualified than (say) a qualified structural engineer? I'm suprised that you think its so clear cut...

Rick

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In reality, I think it would be that clear cut, yes. Especially since that marine surveyor will use all manner of nautical terms, as opposed to the landlubber who will simply refer to the thingymejig.
 
What would you say to a surveyor who wrote a report and added at the end 'I am told this boat suffers from osmosis'.

That's what happened to a friend of mine but in his case it was a house and the fault in question was munic block (aka concrete cancer). An independant engineer did the necessary tests and proved that mundic wasn't present. My friend sued the surveyor and lost.
 
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