Sugar scoop sterns

[ponapay]

There is clearly a good reason why racing boats are designed ith sugar scoop sterns - it lightens the back end and lengthens the heeled water line.

BUT can anyone tell me why they are so prevalent in cruising boats where storage, deck and other usable space is more valuable than 0.2 of a knot.

Is it just a fashion item, like bikinis.

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[Trevor_swfyc]

The sales people probably tell customers how they can swim easily off the stern in the warm clear waters, its all part of the dream. Maybe this is true in the med but certainly not in the Crouch.
Ps I am off to the Ionian in two weeks on a 38 ft Dufour classic yes with a scooped stern, swimming every day!

Trevor

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[Mudplugger]

How about safety guys, if you've ever gone overboard and tried to get up a 5 rung ladder on the stern, its not the easiest thing to do when dressed in full oilies, Sugar scoops make it much, much easier, and allows SWMBO to go for a swim even in the Crouch or Blackwater.....

<hr width=100% size=1>Tony W.

 

[jimi]

Where else would you keep the barbeque?

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[Robin]

In a lot of cases it makes an old 34 footer into a 'new' 36 or a 36 into a 38 footer. (Westerly Seahawk to Oceanquest, Corsair to Ocean Ranger etc). They are all at it, even Moody, Malo, Najad, Halberg Rassy as well as at the volume producers. The customer can boast a bigger boat and the harbourmaster can collect another 8% in dues.

But then we have a scoop on our Sun Legende and love it! It makes swimming off the boat easier, gettin in/out of the dinghy easier and the self-draining locker there takes the petrol for the outboard as well as the swimfins, goggles & snorkels. Putting the outboard on the dinghy is a doddle, as is putting the sailing rig on the Tinker. We even have a shower to wash the salt off!

Some designs though do not suit a scoop, on ours where the original Doug Peterson design was a French Admiral's Cup boat, it looks right. Personally I do not think they look right on modern HR's, like go-fast stripes on cars they make little difference it is the basic design that produces the goods.

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[LadyInBed]

Totally agree. It’s a bit like road cars with spoilers.

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[oldsaltoz]

G'day Ian,

You could make your 38 a 41 footer,

Scoops are a fantastic item on any boat, safer access from tender, from the water or even stepping on from the back at the marina.

Are not overly expensive (I have built 3 sets of these, all on Catamarans, so perhaps that counts as 6), and they can provide some excellent storage space that is self draining, good for petrol and gas storage, also wet items like flippers and goggles etc. When retro fitted they also provide a collation bulk head, and get rid of ugly rudders on pintles.

They reduce the drag so improve your performance and on one cat I did the noise was reduced dramatically with a clean wake rather dragging a box end.

Are they a fad or fashion item? I think not, very practical in all aspects and well worth considering on any boat.

How many disadvantages can you list?

I hope this helps.....



<hr width=100% size=1> Old Salt Oz /forums/images/icons/cool.gif Growing old is unavoidable. However, growing up is still optional.

 

[jfkal]

Any tips and tricks on how to DIY one for a Jeanneau Sunshine?

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[oldsaltoz]

G'day jfkal,

Re: Any tips and tricks on how to DIY one for a Jeanneau Sunshine?

I need a bit more information, how would you rate your DIY skills and fibreglassing experience?

We can save each other a lot of typing if you give me a better idea of just what you want to add.

A hollow scoop, simple extension, hollow and curved to provide very smooth exit and low wake, with lower section enclosed to provide lift. Fully enclosed, with or without steps, any handrails required, storage requirements, curve rates and variations if any and in what areas; the list could go on and on.

Or are you just looking for tips on how to do the job? If you can give me some idea of what you want the finished article to look like I can give you some tips on how to about achieving it, without spending a bundle.

I hope this helps.....





<hr width=100% size=1> Old Salt Oz /forums/images/icons/cool.gif Growing old is unavoidable. However, growing up is still optional.

 

[ponapay]

Or perhaps the reverse

my 38 footer into a 35 footer, and lose all that space in the lazarette, move the davits forward and have to stand on the scoop to steer by tiller (if the wheel steering fails). And think of the loss of 18 square feet of sunbathing space.

I know they are good for swimming and having a deck shower but am still not conviced that they provide any real benefit to cruising sailors, please can someone (unfashionable) come up with a really good reason for the dreaded scoop?

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[kdf]

Re: Or perhaps the reverse

Well on my boat it does all the "allows easy swimming", boarding from dingy (really important), easy access it moored stern to quay or marina. Couple this with the walk through transom and it works great.

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[qsiv]

Re: Or perhaps the reverse

The easy access bit only works when the sea is fairly calm, otherwise midships is better. There are many occasions when we have returned to the boat and not been able to board over the stern, and been perfectly able to board amidships.

As for recovering a man overboard - well, I think I'd go for midships - it's likely to be quieter motion, closer to a halyard, and keeps the casualty clear of sterngear.

As yourr paying to berth the scoop - I'd always rather have 5 or 6 foot more deck space!

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[charles_reed]

Bathing platforms and access when moored to a pontoon.
It's a lot easier walking over the stern than climbing over the bows to get ashore.

Most moorings in Europe are stern or bows to - you'll find them even on the Atlantic coasts of Spain and Portugal. Alongside mooring might account for why the UK is the 2nd most expensive place in Europe to moor a boat.

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[jfkal]

Hi Old Salt Oz. My DIY skills are good and fiberglass skills reasonable. What I look for is a slight extension of the water line and a scoop, sturdy enough to be used as swimming platform and to potentially "keep" the dinghy on whilst cruising.
My worries were:
How to fasten the thing without creating stress points at the transom.
Are there detrimental effects i.e. in strong following seas.
How to get the dimensions right
and last but not least a few tips on how to go about the construction i.e.
use a foam core cut to shape, built a wooden frame first and than glass over etc.

Brgds Joerg


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[ponapay]

Just a few disadvantages:

Very susceptible to expensive damage, especially mooring stern-to (where the only advantage occurs)

Loss of deck space

Loss of below deck storage

Un-boatlike shape

Dangerous access for swimmers, (stern movement much greater than that at the midships position)

That's just a few to be getting on with

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[ponapay]

I have no problem berthing bows or stern-to. I keep my boat in the Baltic where virtually all berthing is bows or stern-to.

A split pulpit would make life easier but even at my advanced arthritic age there is no great difficulty.

As for stern-to with a scoop stern it would often be too low. And reversing in with a long keel can be difficult in many boats.

I can see they are popular but I suspect it is for the wrong reasons - it makes a difference in the bar ' my boat's a 41 footer' when it is really a 36 footer with a 6 foot waste of material added near the water line.

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[oldsaltoz]

G'day jfkal,

How do you plan to stow the tender, standing on it's transom and secured at the base and pushpit rail, or do you plan on pulling it onto it's side; or perhaps just lay it across the back.

I would think that standing on it's transom is about all the space you would have given the limited beam at the stern, please confirm this, as we can build in some fixing points to suit the method you plan you plan to use to secure the tender.

A following sea will be a problem as the section below the water line at rest and under sail would be enclosed, this will provide extra buoyancy and not hold any water.

The total width at the end of the scoop will be less than the existing transom, how much less will depend on lines ahead of the transom.

Can you give me some idea of how much you want to extend the scoop at the lowest point, remember you need to make enough extra space for the tender, and this is to be measured at a point above the waterline in all but the worst conditions. also take into account that the tender will not fit into the curve, so it will be a matter of it's length at the point/s of contact when stowed.(a bit like dropping a box into a 'U' shape, it will contact the bottom).

Also consider what you might do to the existing pushpit rails (if any) to improve access and provide a tie down point for the tender, you will be close to good when you can step on board with a carton of grog under each arm, and not have to step over or around too much.

Construction would be of Klegacell rather than foam, it's not a good idea to have foam (even closed cell) below the water line on any part of a boat; shaping can be achieved with heat or shallow cuts with a power saw and a mix or resin and fibres applied prior to bending, then remove the excess.

Keep your eyes open for some glass, the stuff from large sliding doors is good, you can use it to pre form panels that will not require fairing and have a nice gloss on them.

This should keep you going for now, more details when we know a bit more about what we want.

I hope you are not in a rush, as I have a little training trip coming up in the next few days, but will be back in two weeks.

Soavagoodweekend

I hope this helps.....



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[jfkal]

Sorry I was out of town myself for some time. I need to give it a bit more thought as far as the dimensions go. Appreciate your input so far and will come back to you shortly.

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[Heckler]

correct charles, also lot easier to get off the dinghy when moored to piles like i am with my bene 351, literally step off dinghy on to sugar scoop, nice handy stable flat platform to unload supplys onto, had to climb onto a friends southerly and also a moody last week, over the stern, nice ss ladders, are they up or down will it swing out and get me, ouch on the flats of my feet, where do i hang on to, oh dear was that the navtex antenna? or come along side and reach up for the stays, not the guard rails please! and then hoist middleaged beer belly over the guard rail, nah, give me the step on and step off every time
stu

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[Talbot]

Interested in your comments on the cat. I have a Catalac 9m - do you think the sugar scoop would make a difference for this?

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