Studland Seahorses, Studland Parish Council comments

I say again.
Studland parish council have based these comments on village gossip.
Seahorses have lived in studland for 50yrs ?,
cctv camera's are going to name and shame boats ?
There is little or no damage to the eelgrass ??
I am tired of arguing with you guys, every time I mention anchor damage you all come back with the answer that seahorses like it , thats why there are so many down there.
If thats what you need to think , thats fine.
Name calling I can live with.....Although I must say that this is an unpaid job, I don't swan around on the beach with my expensive camera living off lottery money...I wish.
I don't have a chunky sweater and hand knitted sandles.
I am someone who wants seahorses and eelgrass to be given the protection they are entitled to ( see wildlife and countryside act ).
I won't be drawn into anymore arguements with you all , or listen to anymore insults.
I understand why you are all so defensive.
If you know that anchoring in eelgrass dosn't damage it , than what are you all worried about ?
I was happy to post photo's showing some of the damage, but I still get called a loony.
I don't have any issues with rich yotties , most of the people I have spoken to at studland have been very nice, and had no idea that they may be damaging the seabed.
I have always suggested that eelgrass friendly moorings be laid at studland for the visiting boats.
I have never said they should be banned.
I will sign off now and leave you all to it.
 
Well these are your very own words, the first quote was to the Dorset Echo and the second quote was on this forum.

When we question your statements you don't answer but make accusations, mostly ridiculous. There is but one view, yours. You have already pre-judged any survey.

<span style="color:red"> Steve Trewhella, from the Seahorse Trust, said: “Although we welcome the fact that Crown Estate and Natural England have paid for a study of the eelgrass it’s a start but unfortunately I think they are just going to spend huge amounts of money proving what we already know that there is lots of damage down there.

“Meanwhile it’s still being anchored on and trashed on a day-to-day basis and the seahorses still have no protection.

“Our suggestion is to spend that money to replace the existing moorings with new eco-friendly ones and ban anchoring.

“Eelgrass will grow right up to the eco-friendly moorings and they could put more down.

“There might not be able to accommodate 300 boats but when it is full they will have to go some where else.” </span>


<span style="color:blue"> As I say ...you talk rubbish !
You and your pals know nothing about seahorses or eelgrass.
I'm glad jo public is on our side...lets keep it that way, when we push for studland to become a marine conservation zone.
Studland parish council....is this what they call the' money five ' down in studland ??
All very good mates with the local hotel and pub owners heh ?
All you people are worried about is money, to hell with the eelgrass beds.
</span>

Where to next ST44? There is eel grass in Swanage, eel grass in Lulworth Cove to name just two more occasional anchorages, are these next on the hit list?

Just WHO is the Seahorse Trust? How do people join?
 
"Just WHO is the Seahorse Trust? How do people join?"

Why would you want to join an organisation who's aims you so vehemently oppose?

You do seem to be more interested in scoring points than working with anybody to reach a mutually satisfactory outcome.

Never mind what ST44 has said or wants, what exactly do you want?
 
[ QUOTE ]
"Just WHO is the Seahorse Trust? How do people join?"

Why would you want to join an organisation who's aims you so vehemently oppose?

You do seem to be more interested in scoring points than working with anybody to reach a mutually satisfactory outcome.

Never mind what ST44 has said or wants, what exactly do you want?

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately Chrusty, ST44 will not give us any answers: I have frequently asked him about the damage he claims anchored boats are doing. For example in the 35 years I have been going to Studland the Grass Beds - the habitat (he says) of Hippocampus, have spread very substantially. This I see clearly each time I go there. ST44 just goes on shouting that it IS being damaged.

The thing that worries me about the Seahorse Trust is that it seems to be 4 or 5 people who are very reticent about their qualifications - if any - to actually study these fascinating creatures and their environment. By refusing to either explain their work or to publish any factual quantifiable information about the Studland Seahorse Colony they are getting themselves a thorughly bad reputation.

Locals say that they knew about the Seahorses 50 years ago - so ST44's claim that he has seen recent evidence of breeding seems hardly surprising? Also my limited knowledge of wildlife suggests that many species only breed and survive when conditions are pretty favourable. Both Hippocampus Studlandiensis, and their Eelgrass Habitat seem to be proliferating pretty vigorously in spite of us Yotties "crashing 50kg anchors into 6 feet of water" (quote Steve Trewhella in his Guardian article).

That comment highlights the sort of ignorance these guys seem to demonstrate when it comes to the actual situation at Studland, and when they are asked reasonable questions about their so called findings.

It is very easy to demonise boatowners by claiming we are destroying nice cuddly little animals and so to whip up public support.

The evidence as I see it is Studland is one of the most important natural anchorages in the UK, and has been since the explosion in lkeisure boats in the 60s. On the evidence of people who live there, Hippocampus has shared this lovely bay with us quite happily throughout that time, and is thriving and breeding quite happily. Its favoured habitat is quite clearly from what I have seen doing the same. Marine Biologists do seem to think the anchoring activity softens up the seabed allowing the seaweed to spread - just like a gardner turning over his flowerbed to encourage growth.

ST44's response to these points is just to yell 'rubbish', then wonder why folk - many of whom actually are concerned that our activities may be causing problems - get annoyed with him.

As to joining the Seahorse Trust - those of us who are concerned about Studland might want to join, if only to try and find out whether there really is a problem there that we should be doing something about. And if there is a problem, to ensure the solution will actually be effective to all concerned.

It is sad that Seahorse Trusts most vocal member is unable to give us any real answers about what he believes he has seen, and resorts to diatribe and invective when his contradictory statements are questioned. That sort of blustering in any situation suggests the speaker doesnt know what he is talking about.
 
I hear you, but if you go back through this thread ST44 has given answers to some of the many questions put to him, to be fair, I think he only got exaspirated with people who seemed to be wanting to have an argument, also he did post some interesting photographs to try and illustrate what he is on about. Though again some people just seemed to want to challenge those, for the sake of it.

I do think that ST44 would have been better to maintain his cool a bit better, but I know how difficult it can be at times with the sometimes adversarial tone that these forums can adopt. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Personally I think that if this situation can only reach a satisfactory conclusion for all parties concerned id both sides of the argument start to ask, "well OK, what can we do to resolve the situation"?

To ST44, I understand and empathise with what you are trying to do, but loosing your cool with people that you perceive to be "rich yotties" wont cut it in the end. I also don't really think that a YBW forum is the place to engage with people about this. It's too easy for those that are so inclined to whip up an argument, just for the sake of it. Then there are those that will only half read a post and take things you have said out of context and distort them to their own ends.

One thing is for sure, arguing and scoring points off each other wont do the job. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

At any rate, the Crown Commisioners have asked Seastar Survey Ltd to conduct a survey in the area, so I would suggest that it might be wise to wait and see what the outcome of that is?
 
Chrusty

Do you live around here? Boat around here? Or just like to throw in comments just to provoke?

[ QUOTE ]
"Just WHO is the Seahorse Trust? How do people join?"

Why would you want to join an organisation who's aims you so vehemently oppose?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a registered CHARITY and has LOTTERY FUNDING. I think I have every right to ask how one CAN join, I did not say I want to. It seems to me that the only thing you can do is send them a donation.

Read their web page HERE and read it with an open mind. Then see if you can tell who are the people behind it. Also note that the Seahorse is apparently not their sole interest but is used as their 'Flagship Species'. I say 'their' but there is only one name on the website, the CEO a Mr Neil Garrick-Maidment of 36 Greatwood Terrace Topsham Devon which sounds like a private address?

[ QUOTE ]
You do seem to be more interested in scoring points than working with anybody to reach a mutually satisfactory outcome.


[/ QUOTE ]

All I have done is to publish the other viewpoints to ST44 and ask questions with an open mind rather than just accept what he says blindly. Locally to Studland/Poole and in the National media ST44 is the apparent mouthpiece of the Seahorse Trust and is clearly on the campaign trail to get maximum coverage. Different views and there are many from all sorts of sources are NOT getting anything like the same coverage and that is biased in my view.

My personal view questions the logic that anchoring is a problem since seahorses are thriving and local evidence says that eel grass beds have increased rather than decreased over the years. I don't disagree with a survey to establish the facts except to say it must be a proper scientific survey and an independent one. Bear in mind also that others like Crown Estates and English Nature as well as the local Studland Parish Council also have doubts or dispute the Seahorse Trust claims.

I will say yet again too that this doesn't affect me any more as my boat will be for sale soon prior to our moving to the USA. I just don't want others to lose Studland to a few seahorses that I have yet to be convinced are under any kind of real threat.

What exactly are YOUR motives Chrusty?
 
Why on earth would I want to make your day? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Read my last post........

[/ QUOTE ]

I did.

[ QUOTE ]
At any rate, the Crown Commisioners have asked Seastar Survey Ltd to conduct a survey in the area, so I would suggest that it might be wise to wait and see what the outcome of that is?

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you please get that message then to ST44 because he has already rubbished that in advance and he continues to do so in the media as seen in the latest full page article I gave a link to in the other post 'Seahorses AGAIN' on this subject.

And you didn't answer what YOUR motives are or where you live or boat.
 
"Would you please get that message then to ST44 because he has already rubbished that in advance and he continues to do so in the media as seen in the latest full page article I gave a link to in the other post 'Seahorses AGAIN' on this subject.

And you didn't answer what YOUR motives are or where you live or boat."
_____________________________________________

Firstly, I have no connection with ST44, apart from having some sympathy regarding what he is trying to achieve. He can read my post regarding the survey on here, just as anybody else can.

Secondly, if I wanted Tom, Dick and Rich Yotty, to know where I am or what I sail in, or anything else for that matter, I would fill in my bio.

Thirdly re. motives.....See firstly. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chrusty, (hard line Socialist Eco Worrier) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Secondly, if I wanted Tom, Dick and Rich Yotty, to know where I am or what I sail in, or anything else for that matter, I would fill in my bio.


[/ QUOTE ]

Then you will understand that I will feel free to fill in the missing blanks from my imagination Mr Head. Or may I call you Richard? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
"Then you will understand that I will feel free to fill in the missing blanks from my imagination Mr Head. Or may I call you Richard?"

Please feel free to do whatever makes you most comfortable, for it matters little to me. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Please feel free to do whatever makes you most comfortable, for it matters little to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whereas Studland bay really does matter to those of us that live here , boat here or transit the area and need a safe anchorage in west winds. I probably wouldn't care much if there was eel grass and seahorses in your local pond either.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please feel free to do whatever makes you most comfortable, for it matters little to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whereas Studland bay really does matter to those of us that live here , boat here or transit the area and need a safe anchorage in west winds. I probably wouldn't care much if there was eel grass and seahorses in your local pond either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah yes, one of those posts that quotes what was said, and then tries to score points by twisting the meaning.

Silly boy! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Dear all,

I would like to introduce myself and in the process put the record straight for a few of the doubting thomas's (and it is only a few, sadly very vocal and uninformed) out there.
I am the Director of The Seahorse Trust, Neil Garrick-Maidment FBNA and have studied Seahorses for 30 years and conservation for a total of 35 years) and specialise in the two native Seahorses.
I am a Fellow of the British Naturalist Association and was made a Fellow in recognition of my work with Seahorses and conservation, amongst those that approved my fellowship were Sir David Attenborough, Dr David Bellamy, Dr Richard tabor, Chris Packham to name a few.
Over the years I have written 4 books, thousands of magazine articles and hundreds of reports on Seahorses in captivity and in the field. I am advisor to most of the major (and minor) aquaria and Zoos around the world, environmental consultants and I am advisor to the American, Australian, Irish and Malaysian governments.
I have also been a consultant and designer to zoos and aquaria around the world and was part of the design team for the National Marine Aquarium in PLymouth.
Through the work of the trust which I set up in 2000 and the (approx) 5,000 volunteers who survey (the survey started in 1994) for us we got both species protected under the Wildlife and countryside Act (1981 schedule 5) last year on the 6th of April a very hard process that took 6 years and very hard evidence based rigorous scientific study. The act states that Seahorses cannot be killed, removed or disturbed in the wild; this also covers there place of habitat, which depending on the species depends on where that is.
We are at present building a visitor Centre at Escot in Devon and would welcome any of you to come down and have a chat if you have concerns about our research at Studland (one of many sites we study around the British Isles).
There is so much village gossip (to use Steves term) going around which has been started by just a few people who have vested interests in the site and I am more than happy to answer any queries or questions any of you choose to ask, if I dont know thw answer I will try and point you in the right direction.
There are conflicting reports about Studland seahorses from the residents about how long they have been there; some say the seagrass has only been there for 10 to 15 years (which means if there was no seagrass there would have been no Seahorses. Others states it has always been there and the length of time 50 years has been bandied around. If these people have evidence I would love to be able to see it as it will help all members who are interested in this problem but if as I suspect it is only anecdotal then you will have to bear with us while we survey the site; we already hold an extensive database of information about British Seahorses and Studland and when we get our visitor centre up and running you are more than welcome to come and see the evidence.
Without doubt based on my experience and with working with other researchers around the world Studland is the most important breeding site for Seahorses in Europe and the evidence we have shown and proven is that anchoring is damaging the site FACT !!!. This is a no discussion statement and I would happily show anyone who wants to come diving with us the evidence and what is happening to the seagrass.
The question is how does all members of the community, locals, visiting boats, researchers ect get along and work together for the benefit if Studland. Well The Seahorse Trust offered that answer right at the beginning Environmentally Friendly Moorings (EFM's) but this was opposed by many organisations and individuals, including many local Studland residents who have moorings at Studland.
Seagrass is not just a home toSeahorses and a nursery for many commercially valuable fish, it also stabilises the sabed and stops coastal erosion, it is also a CO2 sink helping to combat global warming that is why the Australian and American governments spend millions of dollars protecting it. If you dont believe me trying motoring across a seagrass meadow in florida and see how quickly you get picked up and fined !!
I would like to put one fact on the table here, according to Crown Estates who own the Seabed not one mooring at Studland has planning permission; they are all illegal !!!! They do not pay for them (bear that in mind next time you get your mooring fee) because they are illegal they are not insured and visiting boats are mooring up to them all the time, think of the consequences of that !!!!
If as we proposed the EFM's had been put in (even treble the number) all visiting boats could have moored up safely and secure in the knowledge they were insured and if we had stopped anchoring then the answer would have been solved, the local businesses would have thrived, the seagrass would not be damaged, the reseachers could have got on with there work and the Seahorses would get the protection they legally have in law. A happy result for everyone.
You need to ask Natural England, Crown Estates and some of the locals as to why we now have to endure a lengthy very costly (£50 K) survey funded by NE and CE (being done by a commercial company) rather than sort the problem out straight away????
Just another quick point about Steve Trewhella ST44, Steve is the trust Project Officer for the site and a good friend, he is also one of the best underwater photographers and researchers this country has, his power of observation is superb and he has a questioning mind vital to this sort of work, so when says something it really does pay to listen to him as he like me has the environment in mind not just for now but for our children and their grand children, something every member of this forum should be concerned about. If we have not reached the tipping point on planet Earth we are damm well near it and when we do there will be nothing and I really do mean nothing that can save the human race, so every little bit of preservation we can all do is vital, so if you want to keep enjoying Studland support us (no we do not have a formal membership scheme yet but you can support us by adopting seahorses or make a monthly donation to our work by standing order, check out the website)
I am sure there will be many questions from members of this forum and I am happy to answer what I can but I will not reply to is personal and abusive attacks, so if you want an answer or have a question then please be civil about it after all we all want the same thing a beautiful bay we can visit (bearing in mind conservationists and naturalists use and own boats as well} that will be there for many many generations.

Best wishes

Neil

Neil Garrick-Maidment FBNA
 
[ QUOTE ]
Without doubt based on my experience and with working with other researchers around the world Studland is the most important breeding site for Seahorses in Europe and the evidence we have shown and proven is that anchoring is damaging the site FACT !!!.

[/ QUOTE ] Ok - anchoring disturbs eelgrass - we know this as it is generally entagled on the anchor when it comes back up - infact it gives poor holding too - so most yachties will try to avoid eelgrass.
[ QUOTE ]
This is a no discussion statement

[/ QUOTE ]Shame - as you started off so well.

oh and [ QUOTE ]
Just another quick point about Steve Trewhella ST44, Steve is the trust Project Officer for the site and a good friend, he is also one of the best underwater photographers and researchers this country has, his power of observation is superb and he has a questioning mind vital to this sort of work,

[/ QUOTE ] But he doesn't know how to use WORDS to effectively argue his position - he'd make a good preacher ...

Please - enter into discussion about the subject on here (don't try and preach - we're not stupid), most are happy to learn how they can co-exist - but a total exclusion will see vehement opposition.

Ok - my questions are:

If anchoring is so damaging to eelgrass, how come there is reports of the eelgrass coverage increasing in Studland bay?

Is there anywhere that ppl CAN anchor to cause less interference?

What is your take on the voluntary no-anchoring zone - it looks a little shallow to be a prime spot that would normally be used for anchoring!
 
Let me draw a parallel with the WWI battlefields. Before the war there were a few poppies growing in the area but after the ground had been churned up by shellfire they grew in massive numbers. An individual shell burst would cause visible damage to the poppy crop but, as a whole, the effect was to boost the population.

It is entirely possible that this phenomenon could explain why the eelgrass is thriving in parallel with the increase in leisure boating and use of anchors in the area. Individual observations showing a single anchor pulling up a clump of grass are not the whole story. If it were, there would be no grass left today.

Action such as you suggest might help the ecology of the area but it is possible it might have the reverse effect. A study using the standard scientific method of testing a hypothesis (as opposed to trying to gather evidence to support it) is what is needed here.
 
cor - next you'll be saying how ploughing the fields help the crop seed to establish ... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Seriously - I suggested this in a previous post and never had an answer. Probably because nobody has ever investigated an anchor damaged site and seen how it looks a year later, and compared that to an unaffected area. Although I would think that over anchoring in an area would be worse ... (needs to be hypothesised and tested really).
 
Neil,

I'd welcome a comment about why you think "the most important breeding site for seahorses in Europe" became and remained such, when there is a long history of boats anchoring on the site.

Prima facie, it would seem that anchoring there (mostly at weekends, mostly during the summer months) may be playing a part in helping the seahorse population succeed, rather than adversely impacting it. It may well be that anchors, seahorses and eelgrass have a symbiotic relationship.
 
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