Studland bay preservation association

[TheSeahorseTrust]

Now I know I can add the pictures here is one of a Spiny Seahorse the first one is of a Short Snouted Seahorse. I have also added one of a human turd, I am sure Steve will not mind me posting it but I od have to point out all the pictures have fully implemented copyright on them so are only for viewing on this site and not for reproduction in any form or on any other forum without written permission.

 

[pessimist]

And joining the trust?

 

[Twister_Ken]

Neil,

There is, regrettably, garbage in the seas everywhere. With the number of dives you have made, you will have seen it. To attribute Studland garbage to Studland anchorers is a mistake you ought not too make. Rubbish is carried far and wide - deposited by wind action, taken off the beaches by waves and tide, carried into the sea by rivers, dumped at sea by commercial and leisure mariners, discharged into the sea by sewage and storm outfalls, moved thousands of miles by currents.

I frequently snorkel a small creek in the Med. No boats use it - full of rocks, and there is barely a beach - enough for five or six families. But there is always garbage on the sea bed and drifting in the water. Not uncommon, for instance, to see urchins with rubbish impaled on their spines. Nonetheless, the reason for snorkelling there is the great variety of sealife.

Frankly, I'd be amazed if there were no garbage at Studland, even if boats no longer visited.

PS. If that's a turd it's never been through a boat's head. Probably a swimmer dropping his or her trunks.

 

[DogWatch]

Over several years in conjunction with aquaria around the UK we have learned to tag
Seahorses with a small ‘floy’ tag that is non intrusive and does not affect the lives of the
seahorses.
We propose to tag the Seahorses at Studland Bay so that we are able to identify
individual Seahorses. During the tagging process we will take notes of measurements,
identifying marks, GPS location, sex and photographs to allow us to build up a database
of individuals on the site, all of which will be updated as and when these individuals are
spotted and recorded again.

Neil Garrick-Maidment
Director
The Seahorse Trust.

Leave the wildlife alone, who do you think you are interfering with our
wildlife, they are not yours, they are ours, STOP IT!

 

[DogWatch]

Now I know I can add the pictures here is one of a Spiny Seahorse the first one is of a Short Snouted Seahorse. I have also added one of a human turd, I am sure Steve will not mind me posting it but I od have to point out all the pictures have fully implemented copyright on them so are only for viewing on this site and not for reproduction in any form or on any other forum without written permission.

Now explain how a 'human' turd managed to make it through a marine lavatory intact.

Have you had it tested to prove it is human, are you 100% sure it is not canine, seal, fish?

 

[Ubergeekian]

In answer to the damage caused by anchors the reason why we state it in our documentation is because we have seen it and documented it. The information is about to be peer reviewed and will be released in papers published by our colleagues at the National Oceanogrpahy Centre in Southampton.

Thank you for your detailed posting. However, if seahorses are breeding successfully, and, it seems, with increasing numbers, what's the problem?

Having said that there is still time to put management protocols into place to alleviate the damage and the implementation of enivironmentall friendly moorings would solve the problem.

We photographed a lot of it including the human sewage and endless amounts of toilet paper floating around; so I am sorry to disagree with you Glashen but it is not a red herring but a provable fact.

You may well have photographed such unpleasant things, but how do you know they come from boats? As far as I am aware, every sea toilet in use has a "joker" valve, which munches everything expelled into a fine slurry. Certainly my own sea toilets (one RM69 and one SL401) don't produce anything recognizable as either faeces or toilet paper when used (off shore only!).

I am sure that, as others have said , if your organisation takes the time to involve yacht people you'll find them powerful allies, and very responsive indeed to evidence based suggestions which will improve the environment. Mr Trewhella's agressive, abusive and, it seems possibly self-interested approach really does very little to help anybody.

 

[emsworthy]

Now I know I can add the pictures here is one of a Spiny Seahorse the first one is of a Short Snouted Seahorse. I have also added one of a human turd, I am sure Steve will not mind me posting it but I od have to point out all the pictures have fully implemented copyright on them so are only for viewing on this site and not for reproduction in any form or on any other forum without written permission.

Maybe there's a little justice here anyway, (assuming it is human and was therefore a direct delivery rather than through any sort of masceration device) from the looks of things the donor of the turd is very probably dead by now if the lack of digestion and poor bile production is anything to go by!

(I have the Gillain McKeith box set.... and she's a Doctor don't you know!)

 

[Ubergeekian]

Now I know I can add the pictures here is one of a Spiny Seahorse the first one is of a Short Snouted Seahorse. I have also added one of a human turd, I am sure Steve will not mind me posting it but I od have to point out all the pictures have fully implemented copyright on them so are only for viewing on this site and not for reproduction in any form or on any other forum without written permission.

If you can pass (as it were) a turd of the dimensions shown through a sea toilet, in the presence of impartial observers, I will donate one hundred pounds to the work of your trust.

 

[DogWatch]

Threatening Behaviour

There are some people who want me to stop posting to this thread, but I
have been accused of criminal activity. I will not stand back while Stephen
attempts various kinds of defamation of my character.

The man is a cretin.
I will save his comments just in case he ever turns up at Studland

This is a threat, by Stephen, made against me.

I can come down and see you on Thursday, does that suit?

This is an RSVP, You wanted me to come to Stutland, I have agreed to come
down, now I am just trying to negotiate a convenient date.

I'm sure Natural england would take an interest in what he would like to do to a protected species.

Are Natural England prosecuting on thought crime now?

Many of the posts contain abusive comments and veiled threats.
There are mentions of where I live , and my children.
I take these threats very seriously.
Comments like ' I can come down and see you next thursday '

I have read this thread over, there is no mention of your address nor your
children. You are lying again. Also see above, my comment was an RSVP to
your initial threat toward me.

Its a shame mad frankie has to stay anonymous,
although I now have a pretty good idea of who he may be, judging by some
of the village gossip and nonsense being thrown around online.

This is a threat against Frankie, why are you trying to find out who we are?

I will be reporting this to the police

Please do, would you like my contact details, please send me a contact
telephone number and I will call you. I will happily appear in court, push for
it, I have nothing pressing in the next few weeks. Go on Steve, report me,
lets see you finally commit to something. Report me, do it!

 

[TheSeahorseTrust]

Twister Ken,

you make some very valid points thank you. I must agree that some must have come from other sources but at the beginning of the day before the boats arrive we do dives and towards the end of the day we do dives and we do a comparison, even if some of it drifted in the sheer quantity means that a great deal is brought into the bay. We have also observed many occasions where some boats users (admittedly yonger ones) have actually lobbed the cans and bottles over the soides of their boats.
With reagrd to the turd I agree it would not have gone through a head but as we all know there are many ways of going and having on several occasions watched men (and women) peeing over the sides of there boats at Studland it doesnt take much to work out what has happened.

The point to all of this is we can work together to put a mangement protocol into place that is common to all parties; it just takes a case of working together; there has been enough point scoring on all sides over the time, now is the time to stop that nonsense team up and do something about it to the good of all.

Just a qucik note to the other person that answered, nobody owns the wildlife but some of us need to look out for it!!

many thanks

Neil

 

[jhr]

PS. If that's a turd it's never been through a boat's head. Probably a swimmer dropping his or her trunks.

Seconded.

 

[DogWatch]

To the Seahorse Preservation Society, show us the Proof

We have proof that anchors and mooring chains are damaging the habitat.

Show us!

actually, better than that...

Show us!

I have posted many photo's of seabed damage on
these threads over the last year, and yes the data will be avalible for all to
see this summer.
I don't want to keep going over the same ground over and over again.

So if we missed the vital evidence of extensive damage to the weed we can
go and swing eh?

and...

Why this summer? Are you waiting for warmer water so
you can get out into the bay to fabricate some images of damaged weed? If
you do not have the evidence now, then everything thus far is supposition
based on your own prejudice toward pleasure boat owners.

You are going to have to get a lot better than this if it goes to an enquiry,
please confirm that you will be representing 'The Seahorse Preservation Society'.

I'm glad mad frankie thinks raw sewage in the sea is
so funny, I'm sure the public will also laugh when they see it, just before
they cancel thier holiday in Dorset.

Ah, more mission creep, you have moved your goal posts to include tourism, nice.

I thought your mission was to keep people away from your beach and your
personal menagerie. Will you be putting nappies on the seals and ornithology,
ever seen a swan or duck turd, they are enormous.

So Stevie, tell us, what are your intentions, are you there to save some
Syngnathidae or are you there because you have nothing better to do?
What's next, ban fried food to help the Dorset population's diet?


RIGHT, I WILL ASK AGAIN!

Okay Stevieboy, I would like answers to the following questions.

1. If the independent report states that anchoring alone is not
damaging the weed, will that be an end to you trying to ban anchoring in
the bay?

2. In the unlikely event that the Report indicates that the boats and activity
are affecting the weed, will you and your club impose a full ban on
diving in the area?

 

[TheSeahorseTrust]

Emsworthy I like your sense of humour good to see.

Ubergeeken we have tried and many of our colleagues have tried to bring the yachting groups in on this and we have had some success, maybe you should join the SSSSG and help to sort out this situation, the link below is for DWT but it explains about the SSSG

http://www.dorsetwildlifetrust.org.uk/ssssg.html

What is certain is that due to the amount of media coverage generated by all parties including the anti brigade and the amazig public support from all over the country Studland bay will ultimately be protected by law by sheer weight of numbers and scientific evidence which is being processed and peer reviewed as we speak, this is a given. So surely it would be better to work together to make sure all parties are catered for and a workable solution is worked out by all before this happens??


Many thanks
Neil

 

[fireball]

The point to all of this is we can work together to put a mangement protocol into place that is common to all parties; it just takes a case of working together; there has been enough point scoring on all sides over the time, now is the time to stop that nonsense team up and do something about it to the good of all.

Blimey - that's a turnaround .... so we've gone from Steve's "ban anything that is isn't a seahorse" to Neil's "We can team up and do something to the good of all" ... and all before we've had any results from research ... or perhaps it's because there is no significant damage from the majority of boats...

 

[DogWatch]

as we all know there are many ways of going and having on several occasions watched men (and women) peeing over the sides of there boats at Studland it doesnt take much to work out what has happened.

many thanks

Neil

Neil,

Are you suggesting that human urine is endangering the ecology of Studland?

 

[Ubergeekian]

With reagrd to the turd I agree it would not have gone through a head but as we all know there are many ways of going and having on several occasions watched men (and women) peeing over the sides of there boats at Studland it doesnt take much to work out what has happened.

What do you think has happened? Have you ever observed someone crapping over the side of a boat?

You really aren't going to make friends by saying "There were boats there and there were turds there, so the boats must have left the turds." After all, it seems there were divers there too ...

 

[Ubergeekian]

Just a qucik note to the other person that answered, nobody owns the wildlife but some of us need to look out for it!!

That's very good of you. Seriously. Thanks. However, you have no addressed the critical, central $64,000 question:

IF SEAHORSES ARE THRIVING, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?

If a sudden increase in boating activity was associated with a sudden decrease in seahorse numbers then I am sure we would all be concerned. However, since the situation seems to be no change in boating and an increase in seahorses, I really, really can't see why you feel something should be done.

 

[TheSeahorseTrust]

HI Ebergeekian,

where do you get the evidence that Seahorses are thriving ?, we are studying them and we dont know that, there is no evidence to back that up, if you know something that we dont know please let us know.
If you go by sheer numbers we could (and I wouldnt because it would be stupid ) argue that because the year before last we saw 40 seahorses and last year we saw less that means Seahorses are declining. What we need is long term evidence and our survey tagging work will show this.
Where I think there has been a lot of confusion is because people lump us in with the VNAZ, as I have stated many times I think the VNAZ is a waste of public money which could be better spent in other ways.
What is highly evident from our research dives is that the seagrass is being damaged, it has large holes in it, the moorings bouy chains are creating large areas void of seagrass and there is anchor damage that is not self repairing.
We have discovered this in our dives and through working with others who have side scanned the site and through an extensive photographic survey (video and stills) of the site. Working with others we have logged the fluidity of the seabed in the seagrass around the edge and in the damaged areas and this clearly shows that areas damaged by anchors and moorings have a higher than accepatble amount of seabed fluidity which stops the seagrass re-establishing. If nothing is done this will lead to long term irreparable damage to the bed. IF the seagrass disappears it will mean the loss not only of the seahorses but the undulate Ray breeding popualtions and other unique marine species (the list at Studland is endless) and ultimately it will mean migration of the sand and silt on the seabed, this in turn will mean beach erosion through wave and current action but also because naturally dead seagrass fronds help to hold the beach together it will mean a loss of the beach. There is already major concerrn about beach erosion at Studland and other sites so we should all be worried about this. Not only would all of the above happen (and you dont have to take my word for it there is well documented evidence all around the world to back this up) but also we will be loosing a valuable sink for CO2 which as everyone knows is one of the leading contributors to global warming.
Every little piece of CO2 sink we loose whether seagrass, prairie or rain forest is bad news for all of us. As global warming takes a hold then sea levels will rise which will mean the loss of the seagrass beds and the beach and ultimately humans.
It may be a small bit to do but by preserving Studland Bay and not just saying 'its always been there so it is OK' is a small bit in preserving the human race from the efects of species degredation, habitat loss and ultimately our own downfall.
I ask the question do you want to live in a world with fewer species, less diversity of habitats and global warming?
I know I for one dont and if through my research work and campaigning I can just make a little difference then so be it, if this neans we all have to adapt our ways a little to make the world a better place then we have to do it. In my day to day life I am constantly changing how I do things even though it inconveniences me because I look at the bigger picture and I hope upon hope that my 18 month old grandaughter has some sort of world to grow up into. Personally I feel she is worth it.

Best wishes

Neil
Director
The Seahorse trust

 

[SkerryMerry]

where do you get the evidence that Seahorses are thriving ?,

"their numbers have been snowballing. We're into the 40s now, and still finding more. At least half have been pregnant males. They're not that common in the world and definitely unique here."

"We've watched them courting - things we've never seen before. Each male can give birth to up to 300 young and be pregnant again within 24 hours."

- Steve Trewhella, in The Guardian, as quoted earlier

 

[Geoffs]

I have been visiting Studland for 25 years. It has always been a popular anchorage. If anchors were causing harm I would have thought that the weed, as I call it, would have long since disappeared, together with Seahorses, I guess.

This is just a 'common sense' observation not backed up by scientific evidence, but so often common sense is lost in so called scientific study.

I wouldn't start a debate on MMGW, it will get you into all sorts of hot (sic) water, let's just say say, another area where 'scientific study' is debatable.