Structural anchor locker bulkhead

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jsousa

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Hi,

I own a 1994 Bavaria 39.
She does not come with a solent stay, which I intend to fit.
It will join top of mast at just 1 foot above of existing stay.
It will join deck to a strong tung bolted to anchor locker rear bulkhead.

How can I tell if this bulkhead is structural and will support the loads ?
I have contacted Bavaria Yachts, with no success... :-(

Thanks and happy new year for you all !

Jose
 
All bulkheads will be structural to some extent - check if it is glassed to the hull and deck. I didn't have a suitable bulkhead so I glassed in a web across the vee in the anchor locker and fixed a strop between it and the inner stay throughbolt.
 
G'day José,

It will be almost impossible to asses the strength of the anchor locker aft partition without cutting into it to get some idea of the material and thickness, then you also need to ensure the section has been well secured and will not rip out the first time you rig it.

Faced with the above problems a few years back. I decided to drill out a section close to the edge to get a good look at the material used used and the type of laminating used to hold it in place.

The end result was several layers of glass on the cabin side of the locker tapered out to spread the load over 8 to 12 inches. Then more glass inside the locker to strengthen the rear panel to hull joint, again spreading the load as above; I then installed a stainless yoke that came together at the top but spread the load as ran down the partition. The tang had to be bent aft to align to the fixing point on the mast, but also to clear the locker hatch lid, it ended up about 20mm away from the edge of the side opening hatch.

The client was happy and the surveyor passed it during his race fit inspection
but I still think it was a lot of work for a small gain. Like most racing machines the deck was way to flimsy to fix it to even with extra glass and a larger than normal backing pad.

Hope this helps.

Avagoodnewyear......
 
The bulkhead should be able to take the load, but you may wish to consider an L shaped bracket that runs under the deck and down the bulkhead to spread the load.
 
Hi all,

Thanks for your help !

What about using the steam head instead ?
Less complicate to reinforce and better sheeting angle with current genoa tracks,

Once again, HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!

Jose
 
Having read your post again, not sure what you are trying to achieve. Why do you want a new stay above and outside the existing forestay? I assumed you were fitting a new stay (probably removeable) inside to take a storm jib.
 
Hi Tranona,

I meant using the steam head, but not in front of existing stay, just one foot before it, near the entrance of anchor locker.

This zone is less complicate to reinforce and would give me a better sheeting angle and more sail options (100% genoa, yankee, storm jib, etc...).

Am I right ?

Thanks for your help.

Jose
 
Still not sure what you are trying to achieve. You say the new stay will be above the existing forestay on the mast - which case it can't be attached behind it on the deck.

I assume your mast is fractionally rigged, ie forestay below the mast head. In which case you can't put a stay higher because there is no support for it. You can use different sails on the existing forestay, so why do you need a new one?

If an additional forestay is fitted it is normally of the type I described - that is inside the existing stay to take a storm jib or similar. Because it will interfere with overlapping sails such as a genoa it is normal to make the deck fitting detachable.
 
Tranona,

We are talking about the exactly same thing, It will be inside existing stay. It is just a question about where to attach it at deck level.

I apologise for my terrible English...Let me try once more:

I have a 7/8 fractional rig. I have an in-mast furling main and a 140% furling genoa. I do not like furling sails, but she was bought like that. For now the main will remain as it is. I want to install a removable inner forestay to use 2 hank-on sails. 100% jib with one reef point and a storm jib.

This removable inner forestay will be attached to the mast below of existing one (one foot below => no need running backstays). At deck level I have 2 options: One is using the reinforced anchor locker bulkhead. The other is one foot rear of existing one (steam head I think).

I think the second solution is better...

Regards,

Jose
 
OK I understand now. I can sort of understand your resistance to furling sails, but not sure of the advantage of fitting an inner forestay for a 100% genoa, when a well cut foam padded furling sail will be almost as good. Alternatively you could just have an extra smaller furling genoa and change headsails if you think conditions demand this.

The inner forestay is normally for setting a storm jib and that would be sensible to attach to the deck at the aft of the anchor locker using something like a Wichard detachable fitting.

I have a slightly later Bavaria and have considered this arrangement, which is why I think the bulkhead and deck area will be strong enough. My proposal would be an L shaped Stainless bracket under the deck and down the bulkhead with a stainless T shaped plate on top to take the forestay fitting. Through bolted to the bracket underneath would be plenty strong enough.

Hope this helps.
 
I have a windlass on deck, and replaced one of its deck bolts with an eye bolt. The removable inner forestay is attached to this. Another eye on the underside of the through bolt has a wire strop down to the glassed-in web in the anchor locker.

(...and your English is fine /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )
 
Maybe you are right, but:

Even with a foam padded, a 140% genoa furled to an equivalent area of a 100% jib will give a poor sail shape. Changing a big 140% genoa during force >= 5 will be very tough, even on dock. So the need for the inner stay with anything more than force 5.

Having decided by it, I think it would be nice to be able to flew other sails besides the storm jib. Since they would not be very big, <= 100%, and they would be hank-on, I could do it while sailing single-hand.

Anchor the inner stay to the anchor locker bulkhead would give me less flexibility to flew other sails besides the storm jib.
 
Damo,

Thanks for the idea.

My windlass is below deck, at the middle of anchor locker and strongly bolted to 2 vary large transverse stainless steel frames, which are glassed to both sides of the hull. This locker has an "opening door", which sadly prevents an eye bolt instalation (I think...).

Great forum, great help, thanks !

Jose
 
Very few normal cruising boats have what you are proposing. To me it seems a complicated solution to a problem that may not exist. After all the boat has been used for 14 years without it. Perhaps better to sail the boat for a year and find out how it performs before making modifications. If most of your sailing is to windward in higher wind strengths then perhaps you need a different sail altogether - or a different boat. You also talk about single handing - that is where the simplicity of furling sails are at their best - a compromise between ease of handling and performance. I speak from a bit of experience with a Bavaria which handled not very well when I bought it new. A new set of sails transformed the boat, and some expert tuition helped me get the best out of it. It is never going to be a great performer in heavy weather, but then I did not buy it for that.

Suggest you talk to an experienced sailmaker about your requirements when you have identified any performance weaknesses.

Hope this helps
 
Tranona,

I bought my boat just 4 months ago, but I have already sailed her in some rough coastal conditions. She did fine. She is a Bavaria, but from 1994...

I do coastal navigation. But in Portugal and during our summer time, things can get rough, North winds force 5-7 is the rule. So I need to prepare her for the next summer.

What I intend to achieve is very common place. Big genoa on a furler, plus a removable inner forestay for heavy wheather. Why do you say it is not common ?

On my previous boat, a Sadler 34, I had exactly this arrangement. It made all the difference with heavy weather. No problem with windward performance in a force 7. This is something you can not do with a 140% furled genoa, with or without foam padded.

If you like to see some photos of my previous boat with this arangement, please visit http://sites.google.com/site/sadler34sonam and download all the photos.

I like to discuss things with other sailors. It is always a great pleasure and a wonderful source of information. My state of mind right know, is for a removable inner forestay anchored one foot rear of existing one.

Best regards and thanks for your help.

Jose
 
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