Stress free sailing - a query

[peter2407]

In Duncan Wells' (excellent and recommended) book he takes the position that spliced eyes on mooring warps should be on the boat not on the dock. While I agree that that is the position you should be in as part of your departure set up, it goes against what I have been told which is - waste rope shoul be on the boat not on the dock. What are the forums views?

 

[doug748]

Is he expecting you might double up the lines and bring them back to the boat, so that you can fiddle with them at leisure?
I think that is what I do, a lot of the time - despite not having any spliced eyes, that is.

 

[jdc]

Here's a typical forum response: I don't care for spliced eyes in mooring lines! My advice would be to use loops at the dock end, made from bowlines, and have the excess line on board. Additionally I do not 'lock' the mooring lines on the cleats, just do the proper OXXO pattern.

Rationale:
- having large loops at the dock allows the cleats or bollard to be used by others as well without getting lines crossed. You can add and remove them without having to disturb other's lines.

- The correct size of loop will depend on the situation, and sometimes you may even need to tie to a ring (in which case a round turn and two half hitches may be better than a bowline). This means that a spliced loop, which will obviously be a fixed size, is inappropriate at the shore end.

- But if you put a loop at the boat end you can't adjust the length of the line! What if someone has tied their line over yours on the dock and they are all pulling like mad (and you're alone, its pitch dark and blowing a gale...)?

- A locking turn in not necessary provided the cleats and warps are appropriate, at least of you're not leaving her there unattended for weeks on end.

I suspect that the advice you quote is only meant to apply to marinas. That technique would not be appropriate for berthing alongside walls or quays or alongside other boats (ie rafting) and I don't see that it brings much advantage even when marina berthing. And not all marinas have cleats, some have only hoops.

To be sure, one can arrange a set of lines which are specially arranged to getting attached when single-handed, but one can then rig a better method once 'landed'. However I'd not stop others from doing whatever works for them, so perhaps my only real cavil (and maybe it's only your quote) is the use of 'should' [be on the boat...]. Better to have said 'I find it convenient...'.

 

[jdc]

Is he expecting you might double up the lines and bring them back to the boat, so that you can fiddle with them at leisure?
I think that is what I do, a lot of the time - despite not having any spliced eyes, that is.

I'd not thought that might be what he might have meant: good point.

 

[prv]

At what stage in the proceedings?

When securely moored up, I tend to follow big ship practice and have spliced eyes ashore around cleats or bollards (or bowlines around whatever else is available) with the length adjusted on the boat's cleat and the spare line on board. I try to have only one line on each boat cleat although I do sometimes have to double up at the bow.

While coming alongside (with crew), I have the spliced eyes cow-hitched over the cleats bow and stern and the guys step off with the full coil of line. Once we're in position and temporarily tied off using these, we swap over to the arrangement in the previous paragraph. The long lines used initially will have been made up as breast lines and are usually needed as springs in the final arrangement, so they would have had to be shifted anyway.

How we leave will depend on the situation. Quite often we can simply unhook the eyes from the cleats and step aboard, with or without giving slack from the on-board end first. If conditions require a slipped line (hardly ever more than one; tickover engine and appropriate rudder will substitute for a second line) then I'd rig that separately. I would not let the spliced end be the one let go - too much risk of it catching on the cleat. I make up the slip so that the part to be released has a plain end and is no longer than it needs to be.

Single-handed arrivals generally involve putting a loop of line ashore using the boat-hook; the loop would either be a large bowline or the bight of a line secured to two cleats, the spliced eye is not involved.

Pete

 

[prv]

- having large loops at the dock allows the cleats or bollard to be used by others as well without getting lines crossed. You can add and remove them without having to disturb other's lines.

Provided you "dip" them properly, you can share cleats or bollards and not have to disturb others' lines even if everyone is using splices. Although if a particular cleat is likely to be heavily used (everybody's shore lines in a raft, for instance) then indeed I will usually tie a long bowline round one of its legs below everyone else's arrangements. You might dip your line correctly through the two that are there already, but guaranteed some numpty will drop a fourth loop straight over the top and then his cousin will tie a massive figure-8 bird's nest across the whole lot

Pete

 

[vyv_cox]

I suspect that the advice may depend upon the situation. We almost never berth alongside in a typical British situation, either on a wall or finger pontoons. We berth stern-to, either on lazy lines or to anchor. Standard setup is with the stern warps bowlined to the aft cleats, taken ashore and back to the boat, pretty much a common method in the Med. I don't have loops, which limit the possibilities for the warp. My warps are relatively heavy and two OXOs would fill the cleat up, plus it is far preferable to haul the free end of the warp knowing that it is firmly attached at the other.

 

[Billjratt]

I disagree with the OP. Loops spliced or otherwise ashore, adjustments and tails aboard. Neater, does not clutter the shore cleat and immediate surround as previously mentioned, and is quicker to clear when leaving. Just being able to unhook and throw a line aboard allows them all to be done quickly in the right order rather than struggling with a series gordian knots like your grannies washing line. All mine are used ONLY for mooring and excess length is kept to a sensible minimum.
I HATE seeing a cleat smothered in XXX (usually without any OOs) just to get rid of excess line.
All this assumes of course that you are a pontoon visitor and taking the lines with you for use elsewhere. Permanent lines on the home berth would have a loop for the boat and a protected shackle or similar on the pontoon.

 

[theoldsalt]

The decision whether to have the "spare" end of the mooring line aboard or ashore may depend on personal preference and convenience. If lines need adjusting when on board then having the "spare" on board saves getting off the boat. However I know my marina staff prefer to have the "spare" on the pontoon. This prevents the need to climb aboard boats if lines need adjusting during the skipper's absence.
On the subject of spliced eyes in the ends of lines again it is down to personal preference and convenience. I prefer not to have spliced eyes and if an eye is needed it is easy to add one using a bowline.

 

[prv]

I know my marina staff prefer to have the "spare" on the pontoon. This prevents the need to climb aboard boats if lines need adjusting during the skipper's absence.

Sounds like you're thinking of boats moored long term at their home berths?

The "marina staff" (highfalutin' language for grumpy Al in his portacabin ) don't adjust lines here, but if they did they'd need an angle-grinder for mine . They're shackled to the cleats with gert big galvanised shackles, deliberately not greased and dipped in seawater so that they'll rust up.

Pete

 

[LittleSister]

I have a few lines with spliced in loops, a couple I bought as an experiment, then a few more I inherited when I bought the current boat. I find them a mixed blessing - very handy at most times and a pain in the neck others. I almost always use them with the loop on the boat's cleat (line usually doubled back to the boat again).

One of the disadvantages of them (used in this way) is that they pass through the fairlead, and hence wear, in exactly the same place every time, rather than in various places according to how you've tied off on the cleat, or how big a loop you've knotted in. They've got a distinct wear mark now, though they have still lasted years. Once they get to the point where the wear needs dealing with, though, I'll probably not replace the spliced loops (except on a couple of handy ropes for first coming alongside, before I set up my 'proper' berthing lines).

 

[lpdsn]

In Duncan Wells' (excellent and recommended) book he takes the position that spliced eyes on mooring warps should be on the boat not on the dock. While I agree that that is the position you should be in as part of your departure set up, it goes against what I have been told which is - waste rope shoul be on the boat not on the dock. What are the forums views?

That's what I do. Loop on the cleat and the lines doubled up.

I never used to when I sailed on the S coast of England. A round turn and a bowline around the legs of the pontoon cleat was good enough then. With bow line, stern line and two springs.

Now I assume that the boat could be subject to at least 60 knots of wind between visits, so everything is doubled up. That wouldn't be possible without using eyes around the cleat onboard.