Strange starter motor noises

[ridgy]

Hi all,

Was down at the boat yesterday and went to fire the engine up. Usually it goes like this:

1. Key to first mark, red lights and buzzer come on
2. Key to second mark, yellow heater light comes on and buzzer off
3. Key to third mark, starter motor turns.

However, what I got was this:

1. Key to first mark, red lights and buzzer come on
2. Key to second mark, no yellow light and faint sizzling noise
3. Key to third mark, nothing, no buzzer, no starter motor.

I tried disconnecting the glow plugs and now step 2 is normal, ie yellow light on but still nothing from the starter motor.

Any ideas?
Cheers,
Nick

 

[VicS]

I will be difficult to do more than guess without reference to a wiring diagram.

Do you have a link to an on line manual?

At least can you tell us what engine it is, we may be able to find a manual.

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

Sounds like a loose battery or starter motor connection, the noise you are hearing is likely to be arching at one of the connections.
The heater plugs draw quite a bit of current, so will need adequit cable size and good connections.
You should start by finding the source of the sizziling noise, it will most likely lead you to the source of the problem.
Do a check on all battery and associated cables and grease all their connections.
The fact that the yellow heater plug light hasent come meand that the relay isent getting power, most likely due to loose/corroded connections, or even flat batts.
There could also be a short circuit somewhere along the cabling, check this also.

 

[castaway]

I agree with CW but also if you have an Ammeter check the connections on the back..On my (Professional) installation the ammeter was used as connection point for several cables and one of the nuts had come loose ...caused a high resistance point.

Gave me problems for months until the ammeter finally melted in Weymouth one day! Problem solved..

Nick

 

[boatmike]

Agreed but it is more than likely the earth (negative) to the engine block. Take it off (do the positive while you are at it) clean thoroughly with a file or emery cloth, including the seating and bolt, smear with vaseline and reassemble. If this does not cure it do the same at the battery switch etc all the way back to the battery itself.

 

[ridgy]

It's a Vetus M.205.

I forgot to mention a couple of other things:

- I had taken the battery home to charge, which seemed to recharge unusually quickly.

- Also, when I put it back in, I put the connectors on the wrong terminals (well only briefly as they are different sizes) and there were some sparks.
However the engine key was not turned on at the time so I didn't think it would damage anything?

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, when I put it back in, I put the connectors on the wrong terminals (well only briefly as they are different sizes) and there were some sparks

[/ QUOTE ] Well that may well have buggered any diodes in the system. There are often diodes in the warning light circuits but if the key was not on they are probably saved but any in circuits not swtched off may have had it.

Could have fried the diodes in the alternator!! If you just touched it on fleetingly you may have got away with it but if it was connected for any longer very doubtful. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I have not yet found anything on the Vetus site about that engine. others may be similar what will be the most likely out of M2.C5, M2.D5 and M2.06.

 

[Billjratt]

I think your battery is knacked. (whatever else as well!)
The original indications and diagnosis would fit a battery unable to deliver high power - possibly through a dud connection, but probably internal - because it didn't take much to bring it to a high voltage when charging.(assuming it was on the bench) Do a "dump test" on it. ( I use a wire coathanger straightened out with a clip on one end and a burned wooden handle on the other) Put your voltmeter across the "fully charged but rested" battery - read 13volts , short it with the coathanger, and read the voltage. If it immediately drops 2 volts, a cell is duff. If it (figuratively) groans a bit, the coathanger glows, and the voltage gradually drops over quite a few seconds (depending on battery size), it's probably OK. Now hang the coathanger somewhere safe to cool. If it tests good you need to look for duff connections as aforementioned.

 

[VicS]

I am assuming that the wiring diagram I found in the manual for the M2.C5, M2.D5, M2.06 and M3.09 is more or less applicable to your engine as well.

A poor connection on the battery (including the negative), the isolator switch. or even the contact connections on the glow plug relay will explain the fact that the glow plug warning light stays off unless you disconnect the glowplugs but poor connections on the relay will not explain the non operation of the starter motor.

A "knackered battery" as Billjratt so eloquently puts it will produce the same symptoms. As will a defective isolator switch.

In view of the unexpected behaviour of the battery when put on charge that would be a logical first thing to check out. It is up to you whether you try Billjratt's Heath Robinson method of testing the battery, but if you do take care! I think I would prefer to get it professionally tested.

If the battery is OK then its all the connections and isolator switch to check, but even if you do end up fitting a new battery it would be sensible to check them anyway.

I have not explained the sizzling sound though. that could be a poor connection but really the source ought to be traced.

I don't think the key-switch is at fault although it is a fairly complex thing . The supply to all the warning lights and buzzer comes on when it should. The fact that the yellow light comes on when the the glow plugs are disconnected does indicate that the relay is being energised when the key is turned to the preheat position and is in fact closing.
it would be a confusing coincidence if the start position was defective so preventing the operation of the starter. More likely that the other problem is dropping the volts so low that the starter solenoid will not operate.

Regarding the reverse connection of the battery that will not have damaged any of the diodes associated with the warning lights and buzzer as far as I can see. There is also a transistor associated with that lot which I am not sure about but hopefully the key switch was in the off position at the time. (Big pity the isolator was not off as well ! )

When you get up and running again look critically at the alternator performance, if in any doubt about it get it tested. It is up to you but it might be wise to get it tested before you get going again anyway.

Don't fit the battery the wrong way round again and leave the isolator open while you fit it.

You don't have any smart charge or split charge system , solar panel or wind generator that may also have been damaged I hope.

Please do let us know the final outcome.