Storm Sails

[LadyInBed]

Re: The best way to go

If that were the case, whoever did the rigging did it wrong!
Not to be able to deploy a sail on an inner stay with the normal roller sail deployed or furled is totally unacceptable.

 

[Lee_Shaw]

As far as Im aware inmast roller mains are, if anything, too flat. This should be an advantage in heavy weather except that there's all that weight up there and the thing may jam up and typical advice is to avoid them for serious, off-shore, have to take whatever comes sailing. This type of sailing isn't consistent with your statement "i don't plan to be out in any storms". So assuming that you don't plan to be stuck at sea for days without access to weather reports and a refuge closeish by then I would be prudent in my passage planning weatherwise and just leave the main as is and get an inner forestay fitted for the storm jib as they have many uses other than just setting a storm jib i.e. in case of loss of main forestay, for poling out a second genoa or setting a nice high cut working jib in certain circumstances etc etc. If you've got a r/r genny then they're the way to go and you will probly get way more use out of a good working jib than a trisail.

I hank on my headsails but the boats only little and it's not a hardship, in fact I take great pleasure out of the set of the sails, but this becomes much harder on a larger boat. I just have to be that little bit more prudent and plan ahead but normally keep up with larger boats because there is no compromise in sail shape that r/r requires.

I would not like to ride out a storm, with a rolled up genny set halfway up the forestay and foreward planning and a slightly pessimistic view towards the weather is the key to safe shorthanded sailing. I hope.

IMO.

 

[KellysEye]

Re: The best way to go

Like some other cruising boats here we don't carry storm sails but we do have heavy cloth sails - 8.5 oz main and mizzen, 8oz genoa (we also carry a set of lighter sails but haven't used them). Mizzen has two reefs, main has three and the reefing lines for the smallest sail area are oversized.

On the subject of Category A, it is generally believed that the category system was hijacked by the French production boat builders to ensure their products gained A status. In other words it really doesn't mean anything. For example, look at the build quality of a purpose built ocean cruiser (say Vancouver ) versus (say) a Beneteau, there is no comparison but they're in the same category - the system is a joke that isn't funny because it misleads people and is possibly dangerous.

 

[charles_reed]

Problem with using a working jib

is that you need a long foot-strop to prevent it scooping up sea and bringing one to a shuddering halt.

That means that it tends to pull out of the luff grooves.

I've got round the problem by having a long ss strop with 2 large(ish) hanks to attach to the forestay

 

[Guest]

Re: The best way to go

I can't imagine rigging an inner forestay and storm jib in a blow. But like you I always rig the inner forestay before leaving harbour if going on a 'serious' passage. I also tie the No.4 Genoa to the deck, together with dedicated extra set of genoa sheets ready for instant hoisting, I just need to untie the rope holding the sail down, attach the second genoa halyard, and hoist away. Even if the wind/waves have already got up, this can be done relatively easily by either heaving to or by running off for a minute.

I virtually never furl the roller genoa Genoa - it's either fully out or fully in. Under the No.4 she will go like a rocket to windward in winds from 30 to 40 knots (though at 40 there's a hell of a strain). Under rolled roller genoa in the same conditions she will struggle, point badly, lots of leeway, and probably ruin the sail at the same time.

I haven't had to deploy the storm jib yet, but the advantages of the No.4, apart from great windward performance, are that the inner forestay and sheets are already rigged. In future I'm thinking of tying storm jib to the deck underneath the No.4 somehow so that the switch is more feasible, but haven't tried this.

Another problem with having roller sails + only storm jib is the psychological one that the crew are not used to the process of going on deck, hanking sails and sheets on etc. Having a No.4 gives plenty of practise at that so it becomes automatic.

 

[Salty John]

Re: The best way to go

This is quite normal practice. The purpose of the detachable forestay is to carry a working or storm jib in place of the furling sail. There is no intention to deploy both at the same time. We are not talking about a cutter rig, just a means of carrying hanked on sails as an alternative to the furling gear. Adding a forestay further aft than the permanent stay involves a great deal more engineering.

 

[roly_voya]

Re: The best way to go

Interesting post! Obviously a topic that arouses passions in all of us and many people clearly have good, but different systems worked out for their boats. Re-reading the whole thread it struck me that comparing the advantages of seperate stays/cutter rigs, haked sails etc and sleeved storm jibs or demountable stay designed for fractional rigged sloops is like comparing apple and oranges.

You would choose a differnt boat for cruising Artic Norway or a trip to Icland and greanland than you would choose for cruising the med and west indies plus the tradewind routs between. Likewise a boat that is fun for a crew of six might be unmanagable for a crew of 1 or 2 in the same conditions. Ideally once you have in mind the sort of sailing you want to do it will probably be fairly obvious what sort of boat would be best. It may be true that there are few really 'bad' boats but to undertake a voyage in an unsuitable boat is to invite discomfort and possibly court danger.

The trouble is we tend to be so loyal to, and proud of, our boats we dont want to addmit that they have limitations. My boat is a heavy displacement long keel cutter with hanked headsails, all the gear is massively engeneeered and the wt of ground takle would seriously compromise a race boat of the same length. She was built for the north atlantic and dosent need the table fiddles fixed till it gets above six, my only worry in a gale might be running low on coke. But take her down south and I would probably by cursing her for being hot, cramped and airless with no space on deck pus her lack of light airs performance would have me motoring far to much. Yes if I got cought in a hurrican I might be glad of the sea-keeping qualities but 99% of the time I would have the wrong boat.

So I say the secret to happyness is to have the right tools for the job, don't try and race a landrover at Le Mons or deliver hay the the sheep in a Farrari!

 

[LadyInBed]

Re: The best way to go

It doesn't have to be an alternative or involved.
I moved my fore-stay forward one hole so I could fit the inner stay to the aft hole without them fouling each other.

The masthead end is fitted to the eye below the fore-stay

 

[tome]

Re: The best way to go

We fitted an inner forestay, mainly for the storm jib. However we often use it with the high-cut No 3 jib which was converted from slide to hanks- in fact in anything above F4 to windward where our big 150% genoa starts to become useless. This gives the crew plenty of practice rigging and derigging so it's second nature

First picture taken just after fitting it - we've put a lot more tension into it since. It is fastened at the mast about 9 inches below the forestay so doesn't require any additional runners. One of the best improvements we've made to the boat and makes her a pleasure to handle in strong winds

 

[feef]

Re: The best way to go

I am not made of money, that's why I have bought a Bav and not a Hallberg or Najad.

I suppose I will have to use the Luff Sleeve for something else then.(no suggestions needed thanks!) I see on the Wichard website (www.wichard.com) that there are suggestions for equipment needed for a baby stay. Any ideas on stay dimensions? 7mm?8mm? 9mm? Is their wheel adjuster sufficient with a functional load of 1200kg?

 

[feef]

Re: The best way to go

I notice though, that in Sept YM the Bav 33 is noted as RCD A while Oceanis 323 and Sun Odyssey 32i are both i B. There can't be much difference in strength / passagemaking ability between these boats can there?