Storm sails - how large and what type ?

sarabande

sarabande

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Trying to sort out some heavy weather preparations and I am coming across varied views on size of storm jib and whether a (main) storm trysail is a good sail to have on board.

Roughly what % of a normal genoa (or area for OA length) do people think a storm jib should be, and what shape ? Suggestions vary between a tall thin 'blade' and a fat triangle well off the deck.

Offshore racing regs mention that no main trysail is needed if the main can be reefed to <40% of full, but the top 10 feet of so of a normal main may not be of the right material or cut (or colour) to deal with heavy winds. A point has been made that using a 'fourth reef' for gales will be a lot easier to set up than having a purpose made trysail to prepare and hoist (perhaps in a separate track ?), though I would rather have a loose footed trysail than having a boom to control with 4 bulky reefs tied down.
 
It all depends on what you consider to be 'heavy weather' and where you're going and for how long etc, etc. Is your idea of 'heavy weather' 30 kts for one hour or day after day of 50 kts plus.

Once you're clear what sort of 'heavy weather' you're likely to encounter, then you can formulate a plan. Generally, the ISAF size of 'Storm sails' are too small to be of any use in the conditions most people would encounter during 'heavy weather'. The sizes of these things (like so much of our thinking about these things) was a reaction to the Fastnet 79, Sydney Hobart type extreme disasters, etc.

For a lot of people, having a strong, rugged sail to replace their heavily rolled genoa allows them to have well setting, effective sail to go to windward in 25 kts plus. This allows them to handle a good stiff-ish blow in a seamanlike way. It can be complimented by a well reefed (2 or possible 3) mainsail.

For the mainsail to be really effective in these sorts of blows, it's the little details that matter; eliminating chafe at the tack and clew, the ability to tighten the leech line conveniently and the strength and design of the batten pockets rather than cloth weight that determines its usefulness.

If you think it's getting too much for the mailsail, then a heavy weather jib and engine is a very effective, up wind strategy for a short lived episode of heavy weather. (Spend your time on cleaning the fuel tanks and parallel filters rather than fitting a tri-sail).

But if you are heading off towards Iceland and Greenland and expect to have to make progress for days on end into 45 kts plus, then everything notches up a gear. A dedicated tri-sail on a dedicated track becomes a realistic choice, but don't assume it will negate the use of your boom. People like Bob Shepton who like going places to use their storm sails reckons you can't get a main trisail to drive to windward without sheeting it to the boom. In these conditions, the loads on everything increase almost exponentially, and headsail sheet fairleads, winches, steering system, goosenecks, try-sail tracks, sail hanks, inner forestay fittings all have to tough enough to withstand the extreme loads and wear and tear of sailing in gale force winds and above.
 
We had 35 knots gusting 50, it was not in a forecast, over Biscay and all we did was reef. In Velsheda crossing the English Channel we had 50 knots gusting 80 in a secondary low, that also wasn't in the forecast, we had put up the tri-sail on the main mast and storm jib when the wind passed 35 knots. The Tri-sail was so big it took 9 people to lift it out of the locker. I think whether you buy storm sails is down whether you think you will get extreme weather like Velsheda.
 
I'd talk to someone like Crusader sails who make very good storm sails.

They made mine and it was perfect size for sustained 45-50knts bomb proof and a good shape.
 
It's easy to get frightened by the howling wind in the rigging and reef / fit sails too small; the trick is to ' keep power on '.

Knowing your type of boat ( one of very few I envy ) - I presume you've read ' Heavy Weather Sailing ' re the 1979 Fastnet ?

I think having storm sails in dayglo sailcloth a good idea nowadays.

There's a painting of ' Lorelei ' at Redcliffe YC on the River Fome with an inscription by her then owner - he, his crew and the boat saved a lot of lives by keeping sailing power on - " I knew she would never let me down "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHTKMGO0YYw
 
Putting storm sails on in a real storm would be hazardous..I know offshore sailers who just roll up their genoas and have a deep thirdreef in the main....materials have moved on since Hiscock et al
 
ghostlymoron said:
The force of the wind hasn't changed though. A gale is still a gale!
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With much better materials to deal with it though.

I also have grave doubts about storm sails because although our plain sails are often in 30 knot sustained or long 40 plus knot gusts, and have survived without apparent problems after 50 plus knot gusts, I can't imagine the moment that I would decide to put storm sails up and feel safe to do so.

For for genoa in particular I would either have to leave the windage of a rolled genoa there or, far worse, completely unroll and drop the genoa in favour of a storm sail in conditions which would have to be very strong indeed to prompt the action. So until and unless I can see a sensible way of swapping from normal sails to storm sails on an AWB I can't imaging buying them.

I dont plan high latitudes sailing, just the usual European, Atlantic and Caribbean sailing - and I've encountered strong winds in all those areas and dropped sails more than once to go under bare poles but not tried to go upwind in more than 40ish knots sustained which was really about keeping the bow up to the waves and making very slow progress.
 
Boats also have better engines these days.

I think I would look at a smaller roller headsail, which you change down to if you're intending to go upwind in 20+ knots.
Plus a deep reef main that actually works.

It depends where and how you will sail the boat.
 
In the days of hank on sails I have set a storm jib (this was after an bare poles inversion) - crawling, clipped on safety harness. Not nice but doable. I am not convinced by the need for a trysail, unless perhaps on a big old long-keeler that intends to heave to as a storm tactic. Also rigging a trysail is probably more dangerous (high up on coachroof) than crawling forward to the bow.

On modern yachts the sail that gives by far the best power to windage ratio is a storm jib. If it's windy enough to need it you will be well heeled anyway and the lee helm you might expect from a small sail area well forward is cancelled out by heel-generated weather helm.
 
jwilson said:
In the days of hank on sails I have set a storm jib (this was after an bare poles inversion) - crawling, clipped on safety harness. Not nice but doable. I am not convinced by the need for a trysail, unless perhaps on a big old long-keeler that intends to heave to as a storm tactic. Also rigging a trysail is probably more dangerous (high up on coachroof) than crawling forward to the bow.

On modern yachts the sail that gives by far the best power to windage ratio is a storm jib. If it's windy enough to need it you will be well heeled anyway and the lee helm you might expect from a small sail area well forward is cancelled out by heel-generated weather helm.
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How would you set a storm jib if you already had a roller genny?
 
If you don't already use seperate hanked on headsails, have a second Plan B inner forestay- ( strapped to the mast most of the time ) with a raisable harness point on the foredeck and carabiner to clip onto similar to safety harness eyes; and a backstay adjuster to tension the rig for going to windward; this along with the storm jib sheet leads will need testing first before being tried in anger.

If given suffiicient advance warning it would be a very good idea to get the usual genoa off the roller and stashed below to save windage and give the boat a chance of making progress to windward, especially if trying to claw off a lee shore.
 
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RupertW said:
How would you set a storm jib if you already had a roller genny?
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I had an inner forestay that could be set just behind the roller gear. If the forecast looked like anything about 30 we would set the forestay and hank on the storm jib leaving it in its bag with halyard on ready to go.

Storm jib sheets were all lead through blocks on coach roof ready to set.

It was still a wet crawl along the foredeck in a breeze to open the bag but that was pretty much all that was needed foredeck wise.
 
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Wansworth said:
Putting storm sails on in a real storm would be hazardous..I know offshore sailers who just roll up their genoas and have a deep thirdreef in the main....materials have moved on since Hiscock et al
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Offshore if the forecast looks anything like 30knts you set the storm jib bagged on the foredeck ready to go. You also read the weather/clouds/baramoeter to prepare before it arrives. We had the storm jib ready three times and used it twice in our biscay atlantic circuit.
 
Above 30 knots would be every other sailing day for us - in gusts rather than sustained and I certainly wouldn't be needing storm sails until sustained 40 knots plus with maybe 50 plus knot gusts.

However the advice on an inner forestay makes a lot of sense - I'm not sure we could have a true inner one without a lot of work, but having one that ran to the same bow roller one just behind the roller reefing gear might (although I'm not at all sure) be possible. But the roller drum would get in the way. Hmm...
 
I used the same bow fitting/chainplate that took the roller, there was enough of metal in the web to have two fittings and it just cleared the drum on a 40' boat. There was also a spare fitting on the mast already so my job was made easy.

Whatever weather you set it up its better to have it ready and not use it than be wishing it was there. We also found the storm jib was great for hove to in a breeze it seemed to balance against the bulk of the stackpack.
 
Neil_Y said:
I used the same bow fitting/chainplate that took the roller, there was enough of metal in the web to have two fittings and it just cleared the drum on a 40' boat. There was also a spare fitting on the mast already so my job was made easy.

Whatever weather you set it up its better to have it ready and not use it than be wishing it was there. We also found the storm jib was great for hove to in a breeze it seemed to balance against the bulk of the stackpack.
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That makes a lot of sense - we already keep the asym under the Rib on the foredeck and could keep a storm jin there too and move the bag to the bow before things get too hairy
 
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