jimi
Well-Known Member
Highfield lever
Storm Jib?
- Thread starter christopherc
- Start date
jonathankent
Well-Known Member
Just done a google on that.... not what I really mean. Maybe it was a Bav part, but I would have thought they are out there. It has a handle on it, like the socket set ratchet, to tension up to whatever you want. When undone it separates and half slides out through the u bolt.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
Excellent, clear answer! Thanks very much.
Ships_Cat
Well-Known Member
Our boat's rig was specifically designed as a "slutter" but as you say the extra sail area if set in conjunction with the genoa ordinarily makes no difference but they are not meant to be sailed that way.
The actual concept is for the inner forestay to be permanent and set well back, usually means to the upper spreaders, and that the boat is sailed as a sloop with either the genoa or the inner foresail, not both. As you say though, is useful if sailing flat run or close to it with both set goosewinged.
Was popularised, I think, mainly by the 1992(?) British Steel Challenge Fleet and our sailplan was specified after that style in 1995.
Off the wind we normally carry our genoa well furled up to around 45 knots before going down to the inner foresail (which is about 1/4 the area of the genoa) but it is a very strongly built triradial genoa. It alone then keeps us at hull speed if sailing off the wind.
An often not said advantage of moving down to the inner is that it lowers the sailplan (as well as moving it back) as when the genoa is reefed its area moves up (in our case with just a "handkerchief" left must be 3 or more metres from the deck to the genoa's clew).
With the inner alone and no main the boat sails pretty well in very heavy conditions. We have spectra runners but really only needed to pull the inner forestay tight, as the rig is otherwise strong and as there is in any event little sag over the shortish length of the inner forestay even set up looseish, we rarely use them.
John
The actual concept is for the inner forestay to be permanent and set well back, usually means to the upper spreaders, and that the boat is sailed as a sloop with either the genoa or the inner foresail, not both. As you say though, is useful if sailing flat run or close to it with both set goosewinged.
Was popularised, I think, mainly by the 1992(?) British Steel Challenge Fleet and our sailplan was specified after that style in 1995.
Off the wind we normally carry our genoa well furled up to around 45 knots before going down to the inner foresail (which is about 1/4 the area of the genoa) but it is a very strongly built triradial genoa. It alone then keeps us at hull speed if sailing off the wind.
An often not said advantage of moving down to the inner is that it lowers the sailplan (as well as moving it back) as when the genoa is reefed its area moves up (in our case with just a "handkerchief" left must be 3 or more metres from the deck to the genoa's clew).
With the inner alone and no main the boat sails pretty well in very heavy conditions. We have spectra runners but really only needed to pull the inner forestay tight, as the rig is otherwise strong and as there is in any event little sag over the shortish length of the inner forestay even set up looseish, we rarely use them.
John
G
Guest
Guest
I use mine in a similar way - only it's removeable but set up semi-permanently when on passage. You mention that it moves the sailplan back - I would add that when you reef the main you're moving the COE of the mainsail forward. The combination of these two actions on my boat produces a really nicely balanced rig in rough conditions, particularly effective to windward.
I've always used mine with a No. 4 genoa cut in heavy cloth. The transformation in performance switching from roller to No.4 is remarkable - can virtually double boat speed to windward, plus much better angle to wind, less leeway. I also have a storm jib, but haven't had to use it - yet.
My set up uses a highfield lever. The tension you get with this wouldn't be adequate, but I hoist the No.4 on a Spectra halyard, which allows you to get the luff as tight as you want, so that the actual inner forestay is largely irrelevant once the sail's hoisted.
I don't think the inner forestay arrangement would be effective without the intermediate No.4 sail. By the time you get to storm jib conditions you want the sheets, forestay etc. to be in place ready for use, it's too late to be rolling away roller jenny's and searching in lockers for the spare sheets...
I've always used mine with a No. 4 genoa cut in heavy cloth. The transformation in performance switching from roller to No.4 is remarkable - can virtually double boat speed to windward, plus much better angle to wind, less leeway. I also have a storm jib, but haven't had to use it - yet.
My set up uses a highfield lever. The tension you get with this wouldn't be adequate, but I hoist the No.4 on a Spectra halyard, which allows you to get the luff as tight as you want, so that the actual inner forestay is largely irrelevant once the sail's hoisted.
I don't think the inner forestay arrangement would be effective without the intermediate No.4 sail. By the time you get to storm jib conditions you want the sheets, forestay etc. to be in place ready for use, it's too late to be rolling away roller jenny's and searching in lockers for the spare sheets...
G
Guest
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/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
See this thread
Gunfleet
Well-Known Member
My 26 ft boat came with a removable forestay fitted, there's no problem with space for it. I wouldn't fancy trying to fit and tension it to the stem head when the deck is going up and down like billy oh. The only times I've uses it is for a wind over tide rush down the wallet when I've fitted it and the little jib (god know if it's a storm jib, but I expect not) in a river and then sailed on the sea with the genny furled and the small jib rigged. works fine like that. It's clipped to one of the spare holes in your stem head fiitting and tensioned with a pelican hook. See this web page for examples
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
There are various flavors of Highfield lever.
I used this type when I rigged my inner fore-stay
I used this type when I rigged my inner fore-stay
bedouin
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Yes coastal and limited offshore. Thats kind of what I thought, I would only ever need it if I made the mistake of getting caught out in conditions I would normally want to avoid, and hence not sure whether to bother. However, we can all get caught out. If I have one and never use it, that might be good news. If I don't have one and find myself wanting, that could be bad and expensive news I guess. I hadn't thought about a smaller roller gen/jib, but that sounds expensive and might be just as likely not to be used.
[/ QUOTE ]
What I am suggesting is that you think through how you might get into the circumstances where you might need a storm jib.
In my experience large roller furling genoas are rarely effective to windward in anything more than an F4-5, whereas a storm job is really aimed at F9+. So IMHO (others will not agree) it is far more important to have a foresail that will continue to work well in the F5-8 range than it is to carry a storm jib.
I have a very good heavy-weather jib that sets on the roller furling gear - because it is small, flat cut and made of heavy fabric it continues to be usable even when part furled - and should the furling gear break having it suddenly unroll to full size would not immediately endanger the boat
I also have a storm job - because it came with the boat - but I cannot envisage where I might need that
Yes coastal and limited offshore. Thats kind of what I thought, I would only ever need it if I made the mistake of getting caught out in conditions I would normally want to avoid, and hence not sure whether to bother. However, we can all get caught out. If I have one and never use it, that might be good news. If I don't have one and find myself wanting, that could be bad and expensive news I guess. I hadn't thought about a smaller roller gen/jib, but that sounds expensive and might be just as likely not to be used.
[/ QUOTE ]
What I am suggesting is that you think through how you might get into the circumstances where you might need a storm jib.
In my experience large roller furling genoas are rarely effective to windward in anything more than an F4-5, whereas a storm job is really aimed at F9+. So IMHO (others will not agree) it is far more important to have a foresail that will continue to work well in the F5-8 range than it is to carry a storm jib.
I have a very good heavy-weather jib that sets on the roller furling gear - because it is small, flat cut and made of heavy fabric it continues to be usable even when part furled - and should the furling gear break having it suddenly unroll to full size would not immediately endanger the boat
I also have a storm job - because it came with the boat - but I cannot envisage where I might need that
Pye_End
Well-Known Member
Would have thought that this depends on the size and type of boat.
I hava used a storm jib on a Hunter Duette (with a light crew) to good effect in F7 winds. Also used it several times single handed on a Sonata which gets unmanageble in moderate winds without more crew.
Present boat goes to much higher wind speeds as it is heavy with long keel, but much over 35Kn continuous is difficult to manage and really needs a storm jib. It is a cutter, and so easy to set!
I hava used a storm jib on a Hunter Duette (with a light crew) to good effect in F7 winds. Also used it several times single handed on a Sonata which gets unmanageble in moderate winds without more crew.
Present boat goes to much higher wind speeds as it is heavy with long keel, but much over 35Kn continuous is difficult to manage and really needs a storm jib. It is a cutter, and so easy to set!
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
Interestingly Sidney-Hobart survivors reckoned their storm jibs were too large. Mine certainly is, though I've never used it.
I've found my #3 genoa (a high-cut yankee 65% jib), of far more use than the storm jib of 30%.
It goes onto the roller furler, with a 500mm stainless steel strop to the foot. It rolls down to about 20% and pulls very well though I've only been out in a mean 44 knots, gusting >50, on the wind.
With regard to "being caught out", even if you haven't been able to get a short-range forecast one has to be very unobservant to not be able to see a 7-8 coming in enough time to change headsails. If push comes to shove, go downwind and blanket the headsail using the main. Easier done on a fractional than masthead rigged boat, on the fractional rig depowering is mainly by reefing the main, whereas masthead rigged boats have to reduce foresail area.
I'd second the ineffectiveness of an overlapping sail for windward work - I change down to the 100% solent which is better than the genoa from about 12-28 knots. The only problem is that of all deck-sweepers, picking up the heads of waves, I once washed off the Sobstad label on a beat up the Bristol Channel. Hence the strop on the working jib. This does need a hank sewn in at the foot to prevent pulling away from the luff groove.
It's the seaway that builds up which makes windward work in heavy weather the most problematic. For most non-oceanic work an easy, if non-kosher, method of getting to windward is to use deep-reefed main and engine. It got me into Lagos in N 42 knots when the other 3 boats had to hide behind Cabo Sagres.
I've found my #3 genoa (a high-cut yankee 65% jib), of far more use than the storm jib of 30%.
It goes onto the roller furler, with a 500mm stainless steel strop to the foot. It rolls down to about 20% and pulls very well though I've only been out in a mean 44 knots, gusting >50, on the wind.
With regard to "being caught out", even if you haven't been able to get a short-range forecast one has to be very unobservant to not be able to see a 7-8 coming in enough time to change headsails. If push comes to shove, go downwind and blanket the headsail using the main. Easier done on a fractional than masthead rigged boat, on the fractional rig depowering is mainly by reefing the main, whereas masthead rigged boats have to reduce foresail area.
I'd second the ineffectiveness of an overlapping sail for windward work - I change down to the 100% solent which is better than the genoa from about 12-28 knots. The only problem is that of all deck-sweepers, picking up the heads of waves, I once washed off the Sobstad label on a beat up the Bristol Channel. Hence the strop on the working jib. This does need a hank sewn in at the foot to prevent pulling away from the luff groove.
It's the seaway that builds up which makes windward work in heavy weather the most problematic. For most non-oceanic work an easy, if non-kosher, method of getting to windward is to use deep-reefed main and engine. It got me into Lagos in N 42 knots when the other 3 boats had to hide behind Cabo Sagres.
jonathankent
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
...pelican hook...
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats more like I was trying to describe, but just a slightly different model to the one on JG website... thank you /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
...pelican hook...
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats more like I was trying to describe, but just a slightly different model to the one on JG website... thank you /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
As for space, it shouldn't matter... it only seems to have a couple of u bolt type fixings on the deck no more than about 2" square.
[/ QUOTE ]It might only be the footprint of a couple of u-bolt fittings but I gather this needs to be significantly strengthened under the deck. Some form of chain plate through to the hull, or whatever, is required otherwise you run the risk of pulling the u-bolts out the deck as soon as the wind picks up.
As for space, it shouldn't matter... it only seems to have a couple of u bolt type fixings on the deck no more than about 2" square.
[/ QUOTE ]It might only be the footprint of a couple of u-bolt fittings but I gather this needs to be significantly strengthened under the deck. Some form of chain plate through to the hull, or whatever, is required otherwise you run the risk of pulling the u-bolts out the deck as soon as the wind picks up.
christopherc
Well-Known Member
OK, this makes a lot of sense, hadn't realised quite how performance will fail in higher winds using the roller.
Thanks for the advice.
Thanks for the advice.