Storm Jib Sheeting Angle

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

A friend is preparing his Beneteau Oceanis 41 for the ARC and needs advice regarding the sheeting angle for his storm jib. His initial thoughts were to use the normal genoa cars, on the side decks, pushed all the way forward on the tracks, but I have seen setups, such as on the Sun Oddyssey 32i, where there is a dedicated pair of tracks inboard, on top of the coachroof.
I will be crewing on the transatlantic leg and would prefer that the best practice was followed. Can anyone give advice?

 

[dom]

As a matter of interest, is the jib set from main forestay, possibly as a wraparound, or is it set from an inner-forestay?

The sheet position will ultimately be defined by the cut if the sail and the characteristics of the boat. There aren't really any hard and fast rules - basically whatever works best. The trouble is that to properly sort a storm jib, eliminate chaffe points etc., one really needs to test it in a blow. Not a storm obviously, but 35kts+ would almost certainly be necessary.

 

[flaming]

A friend is preparing his Beneteau Oceanis 41 for the ARC and needs advice regarding the sheeting angle for his storm jib. His initial thoughts were to use the normal genoa cars, on the side decks, pushed all the way forward on the tracks, but I have seen setups, such as on the Sun Oddyssey 32i, where there is a dedicated pair of tracks inboard, on top of the coachroof.
I will be crewing on the transatlantic leg and would prefer that the best practice was followed. Can anyone give advice?

Sheeting angles with storm sails are normally wide. The inner tracks on boats such as the 32.1 are for blade jibs, and not storm sails. The Genoa track will be absolutely fine, though you might find that all the way forward is actually too far.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

As a matter of interest, is the jib set from main forestay, possibly as a wraparound, or is it set from an inner-forestay?

The sheet position will ultimately be defined by the cut if the sail and the characteristics of the boat. There aren't really any hard and fast rules - basically whatever works best. The trouble is that to properly sort a storm jib, eliminate chaffe points etc., one really needs to test it in a blow. Not a storm obviously, but 35kts+ would almost certainly be necessary.

It's having an inner forestay fitted. There will no doubt be plenty of opportunities to test and experiment. Thanks to all for the replies.

 

[jwilson]

Sheeting angles with storm sails are normally wide. The inner tracks on boats such as the 32.1 are for blade jibs, and not storm sails. The Genoa track will be absolutely fine, though you might find that all the way forward is actually too far.

+1 - if you are using a storm jib in earnest, you are not pointing that high. Set the storm jib tack well up from the deck, and set the sheeting angle that looks/feels right.

 

[temptress]

+1 - if you are using a storm jib in earnest, you are not pointing that high. Set the storm jib tack well up from the deck, and set the sheeting angle that looks/feels right.

We have an iner forestay and the storm jib sheets to the normal jib track. The times we hve had to use the sail in anger we set he car about 1/4 ish of the way back. The wind has been 50knots plus and sheeting angles are the least of your worries.

For an Atlantic crossing spend more time worrying about chafe and rolling ?

 

[paulieraw]

A storm jib is often set higher than other sails to help prevent it catching a wave. And they are often such a small but heavy built sail that it won’t make much difference as long as you can use the winch without any risk of riding turns.

 

[lw395]

A storm jib is often set higher than other sails to help prevent it catching a wave. And they are often such a small but heavy built sail that it won’t make much difference as long as you can use the winch without any risk of riding turns.

I can't agree with that. If you need to go to windward in a real blow, you need the jib to be reasonably well set, if you don't have the fairlead in roughly the right place, either half of it is flapping or half of it is grossly oversheeted and taking you sideways.
I would suggest raising the tack off the deck so that you use a part of the genoa track that gives you some adjustment.
The setting you need may be different with a trysail compared to 3 reefs in the main.
Sheeting to the toe rail can work better.
Try it in asmuch breeze as you can find and extrapolate.

 

[paulieraw]

I can't agree with that. If you need to go to windward in a real blow, you need the jib to be reasonably well set, if you don't have the fairlead in roughly the right place, either half of it is flapping or half of it is grossly oversheeted and taking you sideways.
I would suggest raising the tack off the deck so that you use a part of the genoa track that gives you some adjustment.
The setting you need may be different with a trysail compared to 3 reefs in the main.
Sheeting to the toe rail can work better.
Try it in asmuch breeze as you can find and extrapolate.

I would agree with you, but a storm sail is often heavy and fairly small. In many cases (but not all) it acts as a steadying sail. it is unlikely that the track position would make much difference even fully forward it may not be enough to make a difference as most boats don't have one long enough. As you suggest an alternative could be to set a block for the sail. along a toe rail if you have one.

Often if its blowing hard the sea conditions are rough so having a flat sail would seem to be the best option, except with such a small sail area the movement of the boat and gustiness can make it ineffective to go to windward, bearing away is often the best option so it may need to be eased to provide the drive needed and provide a modicum of control for the boat.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

On boats that I have sailed with hanked on storm jibs to the forestay the car was set to the standard position such that the sheet bisected the luff at the mid point, I suggest that you start at this point. My current boat has an inner forestay and an inner set of tracks but the car position is the same, bisecting the luff at the mid point, I have not yet tested this.

 

[Neil_Y]

It will depend on which direction/wind angle you end up using it in.

Ocean sailing you are rarely going to choose going upwind in a storm, so it is more likely you'll be deep reaching to maintain steerage in waves. So a twisted off small jib is ideal.

However we did once need to turn around and go upwind when we thought we'd seen a liferaft in a proper blow, in big seas the storm jib sheeted in and quite flat was used with fully reefed main.

So in practice as with any sail you need to be able to sheet it correctly for the wind angle you need to sail.

 

[lw395]

I would agree with you, but a storm sail is often heavy and fairly small. In many cases (but not all) it acts as a steadying sail. it is unlikely that the track position would make much difference even fully forward it may not be enough to make a difference as most boats don't have one long enough. As you suggest an alternative could be to set a block for the sail. along a toe rail if you have one.

Often if its blowing hard the sea conditions are rough so having a flat sail would seem to be the best option, except with such a small sail area the movement of the boat and gustiness can make it ineffective to go to windward, bearing away is often the best option so it may need to be eased to provide the drive needed and provide a modicum of control for the boat.

A storm jib should be capable of being set to sail the boat to windward.
Bearing away is not always an option, sometimes heavy wind comes from the wrong direction.
And it might not be mid ocean that you need a small jib.
If the storm jib sets reasonably well, it's an option to use it when the normal sails would just about be OK, save the wear on the bigger genoas.
It's sometimes nice to make OK progress in 30knots apparent with the storm rig, knowing that if it gets worse you're sorted.
But personally I'd rather be in the pub if it gets much worse.
The best thing is to put it up just to say you've used it, then never need it in anger.

 

[dom]

A storm jib should be capable of being set to sail the boat to windward.
Bearing away is not always an option, sometimes heavy wind comes from the wrong direction.
And it might not be mid ocean that you need a small jib.
If the storm jib sets reasonably well, it's an option to use it when the normal sails would just about be OK, save the wear on the bigger genoas.

+1 Aside from wear, a heavily reefed genoa will generally have a rubbish shape with max draft at 50%+ of chord. I use a blade #4 on a Dyneema inner-forestay with a Facnor roller (not furler). Excellent for punching to windward in a blow 2/3 reefs main set-up and the genoa can rest.

If the wind really blows, a well-cut, well set-up storm jib and a main with a deep 3rd/4th reef in has a fighting chance of holding a boat off a lee shore when deployment of the parachute anchor and bearing off are not options.

 

[paulieraw]

The best thing is to put it up just to say you've used it, then never need it in anger.

That would be my choice too lol.
I agree with a post above when your in a big blow 40 knots plus gusting to 60 the last thing you are trying to do is sail to a heading. I spent 15 hours at the helm of a Nic 55 surfing up and down big seas with 10 crew being ill below and the skipper looking after them and bringing me occasional food. In those conditions even on a 55 foot boat it gets cosy.

 

[dom]

I spent 15 hours at the helm of a Nic 55 surfing up and down big seas with 10 crew being ill below and the skipper looking after them and bringing me occasional food. In those conditions even on a 55 foot boat it gets cosy.

That was't part of a pair used for sail training on the South Coast was it, though I only vaguely remember the details? And the name Grania seems to ring a bell, but no idea why. Either way, heard some rare old stories about one of the captains and his antics, so possibly you experienced them first hand

 

[William_H]

As said I would start by using the existing tracks and try the storm sail in reasonably blowy conditions. 25kts +. Reef the main to a commensurate degree then try to sail the boat to windward. Jib sheeting points should be come clear from experiment.
The check the performance on a reach or running. It may be desirable to have close sheeting and wide sheeting.
However try a single fixed sheeting point then if necessary barber haulers to adjust sheeting in or out and forward or back. Sheeting as wide as possible can be useful for running where sheeting point can go towards emulating a poled jib without the attendant dangers of a pole. Do try it and in fact use it often just to get used to it. A storm jib up, can turn a gusty day into a very pleasant sedate sail with nervous passengers. Plus as said it can set you up for being prepared if things get worse. olewill

 

[paulieraw]

That was't part of a pair used for sail training on the South Coast was it, though I only vaguely remember the details? And the name Grania seems to ring a bell, but no idea why. Either way, heard some rare old stories about one of the captains and his antics, so possibly you experienced them first hand

They were based on the south coast but they were sail training vessels.from Haslar at Gosport. This one was in Cyprus at the time.