Storm in a tea cup.

[JumbleDuck]

Absolutely. Very well put.

+1

I run an organisation which is entirely staffed by volunteers (including me) and we do not let people off with poor behaviour simply because they are unpaid. We are very grateful for their time, of course, but if they want to work with us - and represent us- they have to abide by our standards.

Those who excuse sexism in lifeboat crews - would you also excuse overt racism?

 

[Heckler]

The text of the article includes this: -



It suggests that there is more to this. However, maybe not, maybe it is just an over reaction based on one woman's complaint. There is no doubt to me that the last few years has seen a significant increase in righteousness when it comes to standards of behaviour. What was once considered tolerant, is no longer tolerated and in a lot of cases it is men that are struggling to recognise this.

Why should we? Stupid me me mes virtual signalling! And most of the time from the left!
Stu

 

[Heckler]

Times have changed for the worse in my opinion. I wonder how this and similar minded officials would react in motor trade or engineering workshops where Pirelli, Star Birds and Page 3 calendars are the normal wallpaper. One of the best collections I ever saw decorated a hospital mortuary wall

Indeed! Some people need to get a life!
Stu

 

[JumbleDuck]

Why should we? Stupid me me mes virtual signalling! And most of the time from the left!
Stu

I think it's reasonable to recognize that many women are uncomfortable with behaviour and displays which caused no problems when workplaces were wholly male. The world moves on, and good manners cost nothing.

 

[shan]

I think it's reasonable to recognize that many women are uncomfortable with behaviour and displays which caused no problems when workplaces were wholly male. The world moves on, and good manners cost nothing.

This seems to be something people seem to struggle with. If the world didn't change, we'd all still be running around in animal skins, hunting with spears and rubbing twigs together to make a fire!

 

[dogleg]

Following an investigation at Whitby lifeboat station, two volunteers have been stood down. They have the right to challenge this decision and we are waiting to hear if they wish to do so. Four other people have resigned.

This is about much more than ‘saucy mugs’ but for legal reasons and given the crew members have a right of appeal it is not appropriate to say more at this time however we can confirm the investigation focussed on the production of inappropriate material of a sexual nature and associated social media activity directed at an RNLI staff member.

We are aware of speculation about the issue on social media but we want to stress that this was not a trivial matter.

The lifeboat station should be an environment where people can expect to be treated with dignity and respect. We can not allow bullying, harassment or discrimination in what should be a safe and inclusive environment and there will be serious consequences for anybody who demonstrates this behaviour within the RNLI.

By challenging this behaviour, we are standing up for the thousands of volunteers, both male and female, who are committed to doing the right thing as they operate our 238 lifeboat stations, saving lives at sea around the clock, 365 days of the year. Our dedicated volunteers represent the values and principles of our organisation and we will not allow any behaviour that brings the work of the RNLI and our people into disrepute.

We can confirm that the images of the mugs in many of the media articles is not a true representation of what was produced.

https://rnli.org/news-and-media/2018/may/03/statement-on-whitby-situation

Just returned from visiting daughter in Australia and watching cricket there (don't ask) for what it is worth Whitby ALB launched this morning. All RNLI volunteers are asked to sign a code of conduct which covers all of what some would call PC gone mad. The RNLI has also drawn up social media guide lines. The female in question appears to be an employee so Poole has a duty of care towards her and no one should go to work today to be taunted by social media from those to whom you are responsible possibly for monitoring.

When I stared work many years ago in what could be termed a macho environment there was of course much banter and horse play most of which would not be tolerated today. Many years ago we sent young boys up chimneys to sweep them and sent children to work in coal mines for so long that they became blind in daylight. I can remember disabled people coming to our seaside town in my childhood and being called spastic by many. Those days have gone thankfully.

 

[JumbleDuck]

This seems to be something people seem to struggle with. If the world didn't change, we'd all still be running around in animal skins, hunting with spears and rubbing twigs together to make a fire!

Have you been to Norfolk?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Why should we? Stupid me me mes virtual signalling! And most of the time from the left!
Stu

You don't have to do anything. You use the term virtual signalling which supposes that the person making the complaint wishes to be seen within their group as somehow morally superior; maybe that is the case. What may be happening is that this person feels pressure or stress as a result of behaviour. So what, who cares, ignoring any workplace legalities, there is a performance impact on the person. A previous post mentioned this with some examples. For most organisations, that is the crux of the issue, performance, as well as any legal issues that they may face, it is not healthy for an organisation for employees to be behave in a negative way to one another. I do agree that there is a risk of the pendulum swinging too far, but eventually it balances out. That's how I see it.

 

[PilotWolf]

I wonder if a male member of staff in a predominantly female workplace would succeed to getting a 'Fireman' type calendar removed, based on its explicit images?

W.

 

[shan]

I wonder if a male member of staff in a predominantly female workplace would succeed to getting a 'Fireman' type calendar removed, based on its explicit images?

W.

Do you have an example of this?

If it does exist then I don't see why not. There are professional standards, which one expects to be adhered to in the work place, whatever gender you happen to be or identify as.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I wonder if a male member of staff in a predominantly female workplace would succeed to getting a 'Fireman' type calendar removed, based on its explicit images?

In most workplaces that would now be seen as completely unacceptable.

 

[Cheery]

If 0.01% of the 'audience' don't find the banter funny, it is banned is it? Does that mean sour faced people can rule the majority? A genuine question, not looking for a row.

 

[JumbleDuck]

If 0.01% of the 'audience' don't find the banter funny, it is banned is it? Does that mean sour faced people can rule the majority? A genuine question, not looking for a row.

If anyone is likely to feel genuinely uncomfortable or unwelcome then yes, you should stop doing what makes them uncomfortable or unwelcome. It is unfair to characterise them as "sour-faced", because people should not be expected to laugh at themselves or to join in with the mocking of others. I work alongside some very committed feminists, all of whom have excellent senses of humour but none of whom find mocking comments about women in engineering funny.

I'm sure there are people who like to take offence, but in general they do so on behalf of others. In any case, I think erring on the side of good manners is generally the way forward.

All this applies to the work place, by the way. On the whole I'm with Stephen Fry on the giving and taking of offence, but workplaces - whether voluntary or paid - are different, and it is reasonable to expect that everyone in them should feel as comfortable as possible with the atmosphere.

 

[shan]

If 0.01% of the 'audience' don't find the banter funny, it is banned is it? Does that mean sour faced people can rule the majority? A genuine question, not looking for a row.

I'd expect people to tailor their behaviour to the situation. One behaves very differently toward a work colleague, than one would toward a good friend or toward a spouse. The workplace has evolved into a more varied space and as a result, behaviour needs to be tailored accordingly. The day of boys locker room talk is pretty much viewed as unprofessional in most industries these days as workplaces have evolved in terms of their gender make up.

 

[Dutch01527]

Do you have any evidence for the senior manager's "radical feminism" beyond her dislike of sexist comments?

Yes, she used to tell anyone and everyone daily that is what she was as well as coming out with comments such as “all men are rapists”. Given that she was 5’2” and about 20 stone I think that she was pretty safe!!!

Seriously, I do not condone sexism, racism, homophobia or bullying. However, there is a real difference between those issues which need to be eradicated and the political correct nonsense that has crept into our culture.

 

[CCJ]

If 0.01% of the 'audience' don't find the banter funny, it is banned is it? Does that mean sour faced people can rule the majority? A genuine question, not looking for a row.

You dont have to look very far for your answer

 

[chrishscorp]

Whitby, 2 crew sacked, 2 others have also resigned in support of them over what is a stupid matter that should have simply been dealt with by a quiet word.

I may have missed it but i dont think any comment was made on here, on the sacking of the Cox from the Scarborough station last month.

 

[Juan Twothree]

I may have missed it but i dont think any comment was made on here, on the sacking of the Cox from the Scarborough station last month.

Another case where what was reported in the press was slightly out of line with the facts. This was the RNLI statement:


Statement regarding former Scarborough coxswain

Press statement attributed to Adrian Carey, RNLI Head of Lifesaving

Scarborough’s volunteer Coxswain was stood down for serious safety breaches that put lives at risk.
While we can’t go into all the details, we can say that the Coxswain led an unofficial exercise in which he took Scarborough’s Shannon class lifeboat to sea with untrained passengers on board and without enough qualified crew members. From the investigation evidence, it is also clear that the untrained passengers on board were given operational control of the lifeboat in poor weather conditions and strong winds.

The lack of a full crew meant the lifeboat was not available for rescue duties and the Coastguard – who coordinate rescues at sea - was not informed that the lifeboat was ‘off service.’ If the lifeboat was required for rescue, it would first have had to return to the lifeboat station, disembark the passengers, and pick up qualified crew, delaying the rescue launch considerably and potentially risking lives.

This was not a simple administrative oversight - crew, passengers, the lifeboat and the RNLI were all placed in a vulnerable position as a result of the Coxswain’s actions.

This series of serious breaches ultimately put lives at risk – the lives of the crew, passengers and anyone who needed to be rescued from the sea that day. No contingency plan was in place in the case of an emergency call.

The investigation into the incident was conducted by experienced RNLI managers and was fair, robust and thorough. The decision to stand down the coxswain was not made lightly – the RNLI recognises that he has served at Scarborough lifeboat station for many years, however it is crucial that all our volunteers accept and meet the required standards of behaviour which enable us to operate a safe and inclusive emergency service.

All charities and emergency services are, quite rightly, subject to scrutiny and must tackle poor behaviour and unsafe practices quickly and effectively. The RNLI takes its responsibilities very seriously.

We are proud of our 238 lifeboat stations and the thousands of volunteers who operate them, but on the occasions when we find required standards are not being met, we do sometimes have to make difficult decisions.

This decision was made by RNLI management and we’d ask people to continue to support the dedicated volunteers at Scarborough lifeboat station, who are working with us and are ready to save lives when the pager goes, despite the current difficult circumstances.

 

[PilotWolf]

Do you have an example of this?

If it does exist then I don't see why not. There are professional standards, which one expects to be adhered to in the work place, whatever gender you happen to be or identify as.

No. I was just wondering if like most of these 'offended' issues it'd work both ways. Certainly in my old ambulance service days the mechanics were made to remove the calendars mentioned above and that was back in early 200x. Yet I still see things that are deemed acceptable until the gender/skin color/race/etc. is reversed.

I reported a photo on an RNLI station's page a few years back as it was offensive (clearly visible male genitals in skintight thin Lycra). The response from the RNLI was it was out of their control as a member of the public posted it to the station's official page and it was taken during a public fundraiser.

I have personal experience of the RNLI, which I will NOT be disclosing here, but there are some serious issues on stations, failings of managers and huge wastes of donations

PW.

 

[PilotWolf]

In most workplaces that would now be seen as completely unacceptable.

Thanks. I've been out of the UK for sometime so good to know there is some equality across the board.

W.